Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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Jeff Head

General
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Nice photos! Thanks for posting.

The straight scoop on the EMALs system installed on CVN-78;

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The state-of-the-art catapult on the newest supercarrier is unable to launch jets loaded with external fuel tanks, a problem that could cripple carrier operations. But Navy officials say a software change in the works will correct the problem before the system's planned operational launch of aircraft in 2017.

The problem was identified in April 2014 during testing at Lakehurst, N.J., said Victor Chen, spokesman for Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division.

"The Navy understands the issue, views it as low technical risk, and has a funded plan in place to fix it. The resolution of this issue is straight-forward because the Navy will leverage this inherent capability of the system to tune the catapult forces for these wing tank configurations. There is no impact to ongoing shipboard installation or shipboard testing and this will not delay any CVN 78 milestones."

Says it all. not a big problem and will be corrected by a software fix.

Folks, this is whyt you do ALL OF THOSE TESTS.

The US Navy knows what it is about in these things, and they are showing that something that media and detractors may LEAP AT, is a straight forward, non-critical issue.

Just the same, without all of those tests...exercising all of the various configurations and options, this would not have been found and could have ended up resulting in the loss of aircraft and personnel.

As I have said before, any nation wanting to bring forward critical new technology like this...is going to have to test it extensively in real world conditions. (and that would include any new catapult system, or...hehehe...something like the Chinese DF-21D ASBM system...LOL!)
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
Says it all. not a big problem and will be corrected by a software fix.

Well...

EMALS has more gradual and even acceleration compared to regular steam catapults . If EMALS puts too much force (i.e. accelerates aircraft and fuel tanks too fast) , steam catapult would be even worse in this regard . Yet we know that steam catapults launch aircraft with external fuel tanks for years.

So what is the problem ? In my opinion, length of aircraft catapult run ( especially from 2nd and 3rd position from the top ) on Gerald Ford is too short . Aircraft needs to reach certain minimum speed at the end of their catapult run . In order to achieve that, EMALS give them relatively constant acceleration (compared to steam catapults) . But, if the length of the run goes down , acceleration must go up . And with fuel tanks attached acceleration could be too big . And that is something you could not fix with software patch .


normalflightdeck.jpg
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Well...

EMALS has more gradual and even acceleration compared to regular steam catapults . If EMALS puts too much force (i.e. accelerates aircraft and fuel tanks too fast) , steam catapult would be even worse in this regard . Yet we know that steam catapults launch aircraft with external fuel tanks for years.

So what is the problem ? In my opinion, length of aircraft catapult run ( especially from 2nd and 3rd position from the top ) on Gerald Ford is too short . Aircraft needs to reach certain minimum speed at the end of their catapult run . In order to achieve that, EMALS give them relatively constant acceleration (compared to steam catapults) . But, if the length of the run goes down , acceleration must go up . And with fuel tanks attached acceleration could be too big . And that is something you could not fix with software patch .


normalflightdeck.jpg

Come on chief, don't doubt the headmaster or the Navy buddy, those cats appear to be very close to the same length. The EMALS is able to generate a much higher acceleration rate right off the mark, that my boy is the problem, the solution is simply to dial it back, read the whole article.
That much higher acceleration rate puts a rear ward bending motion on those pylons because the heavy fuel in the tank resists acceleration, come on, put that fantabolous brain to work buddy. Not to little acceration---too much initial acceleration, a good problem to have, and software will taylor that acceleration to the application at hand.
(EMALS) will launch a much heavier aircraft, but it will have higher attendant acceleration, only a problem with a load on a pylon, an internal load will be supported by the internal structure of the aircraft, the external load is at the end of a longer moment arm, and that longer moment gives the load a very significant mechanical advantage, that is not advantageous!
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
The likely possibility is that the EMALS lacks the magnetic power to pull the weight in which the magnetic attraction is disrupted by the amount of mass it was trying to tug since there is no physical connection, the tolerance of weight is quite strict and will fail even with an extra Kilo.
If they provide more electric power to the magnets it should solve the problem.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
The likely possibility is that the EMALS lacks the magnetic power to pull the weight in which the magnetic attraction is disrupted by the amount of mass it was trying to tug since there is no physical connection, the tolerance of weight is quite strict and will fail even with an extra Kilo.
If they provide more electric power to the magnets it should solve the problem.

Gentlemen, read the article, the EMALS is "over-stressing" the aircraft equipped with external fuel slung on pylons. The fuel on the end of the Pylon needs to be accelerated at a much lower rate, in order not to overstress the wing. As the aircraft is accelerated at a very high rate, the heavy fuel resists that acceleration, that force tends to rotate around the aft attach point of the pylon to the wing, overstressing the front mount with a down-ward/rear-ward stress caused by that very heavy fuel tank acting at the end of that long moment arm.

This downward/rearward force moment exerts extreme stress on the front of the pylon at the wing and fuel tank attach points, and exerts a downward twisting moment on the wing and the spar trying to pull the wing leading edge down and back, resulting in a twisting moment that the wing does NOT like, even losing that front fuel tank mount will result in a catastrophic failure right at rotation.
The solution is real simple and the EMALS forte, you dial the acceleration back, as the EMALS has more than ample force to launch the fighter aircraft, as well as the heavy CODS. Once you have that fuel moving and accelerating then you can sling that puppy off the deck without undo stress. The EMALS will be much easier on all aircraft due to that very nature having excess force that you can tune to your application!

and YES, IT IS ROCKET SCIENCE! really it is, very snarky kool, but its a whole new field to understand, develop, and employ in the field? The main reason I think it would border on foolish for the Chinese to try to jump into this on their first indigenous carriers, but hey, who asked me?
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Question here guys.

I am about to start building the Sao Paulo. I will use Heller's kit of the Foch and adjust it.

Here's the question.

Although the Foch had guns and missiles, I have not been able to find a single picture over they years of the Sao Paulo having any.

The sponsons where the guns and the Crotale missiles are all vacant and empty on the Sao Paulo.

Did they ever install any self defense weaponry on the vessel outside of some 12.7mm machine guns I have seen to repel borders and small craft?

Mirage? Forbin? NavyRecon?

At this point, I will add all the railing and what not...but do not see any pictures showing any weapons on those sponsons.
 
found on a Russian forum:
the deck crew on the Admiral Kuznetsov (which thunderchief would call "heavy aircraft-carrying missile
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", not an aircraft carrier :) recently
(meaning here: sometime in 2014) became color-coded:
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this is not an official information ... check the pictures inside that post, you can be guessing on the assignment of respective teams in various vests (or "jacket" is the word?) for example in green:
0_136af0_3636abed_orig.jpg

:)
 
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Equation

Lieutenant General
Question here guys.

I am about to start building the Sao Paulo. I will use Heller's kit of the Foch and adjust it.

Here's the question.

Although the Foch had guns and missiles, I have not been able to find a single picture over they years of the Sao Paulo having any.

The sponsons where the guns and the Crotale missiles are all vacant and empty on the Sao Paulo.

Did they ever install any self defense weaponry on the vessel outside of some 12.7mm machine guns I have seen to repel borders and small craft?

Mirage? Forbin? NavyRecon?

At this point, I will add all the railing and what not...but do not see any pictures showing any weapons on those sponsons.

I would go with the current condition of the Sao Paulo without guns and missiles. You can always buy another kit with it when it was under it's previous ownership.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
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These shipmates do not appear to have a life vest or steel toed shoes. And of course no helmet or ear protection. No goggles..can't tell if they have gloves. the one mate is playing pocket pool..No safety gear at all..pitiful..But of course the way the Russians slowly operate their lone carrier perhaps they don't feel the need to be any safer. Not smart in my opinion.

In the US Navy GREEN is the color for catapults and arresting gear.. also squadron maintenance persons.

This is what the well equipped flight deck crew person should be wearing..

Helmet with goggles, hearing protection, life vest, cloves and a strobe light in case a shipmate goes overboard..and it does happen. Also notice the reflective tap affixed to the helmet and life vest.

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PACIFIC OCEAN (March 20, 2015) Air department Sailors participate in a flight deck fire drill aboard the amphibious assault ship USS Boxer (LHD 4). Boxer is underway conducting sea trials off the coast of Southern California. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Jesse Monford/Released)
 

Air Force Brat

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These shipmates do not appear to have a life vest or steel toed shoes. And of course no helmet or ear protection. No goggles..can't tell if they have gloves. the one mate is playing pocket pool..No safety gear at all..pitiful..But of course the way the Russians slowly operate their lone carrier perhaps they don't feel the need to be any safer. Not smart in my opinion.

In the US Navy GREEN is the color for catapults and arresting gear.. also squadron maintenance persons.

This is what the well equipped flight deck crew person should be wearing..

Helmet with goggles, hearing protection, life vest, cloves and a strobe light in case a shipmate goes overboard..and it does happen. Also notice the reflective tap affixed to the helmet and life vest.

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and the Wally World jungle green cammies on the bottom,,, WHUT???
 
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