Agni 3 test failiure

DPRKPTboat

Junior Member
It seems that the world's attention was on the North korean tests. The Agni 3 was launched on Sunday, but it crashed into the Bay of Bengal after takeoff. Whether this highlights a fault in the missile programme I don't know, but I don't think its a major sign of poor quality of Indian missiles - the Agni flew further than the Taepodong 2 after launch.

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Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Failure of missiletest isen't the best indicator of manufacturing quality. When the US missile-defence system had considerable setbacks, was someone saying that US missiles are poor quality?? Lets not draw pictures of demons to the walls without any reason...
 

DPRKPTboat

Junior Member
Gollevainen said:
Failure of missiletest isen't the best indicator of manufacturing quality. When the US missile-defence system had considerable setbacks, was someone saying that US missiles are poor quality?? Lets not draw pictures of demons to the walls without any reason...

Its only speculation. Anyway, I think they'll fix it and get it right next time. After all, it did fare better than the Taepodong, which failed immediately after take-off. This one crashed longer into its flight plan. But that'll be no comfort to Pakistani commanders - the Indians won't make the same mistake again.
 

crazyinsane105

Junior Member
VIP Professional
The Agni-III isn't even intended for Pakistan. It's 3,000 km range is intended for China. Why would India need a missile with a 3,000 km range for Pakistan? Plus both Pakistan and India have tested two stage missiles before with success. So maybe the Indian Agni-III will see success in the future.
 

crazyinsane105

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Another Set Back
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After the failure of Agni III missile, India's space programme received a major setback on Monday when the Geosynchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle (GSLV-F02) carrying the INSAT 4C communication satellite veered from its projected path and came crashing down.

ISRO chairman G Madhavan Nair, admitting the failure of the mission, said, "things have gone wrong in the stage of separation (of the booster from the launch vehicle). We have to analyse the data why it went wrong".

The launch vehicle, carrying the 2168kg satellite to boost to Direct-to-Home television service and digital news gathering, deviated from its chartered path soon after the lift-off from Satish Dhawan Space Centre at 1738 hours and disintegrated into a ball of fire.

Soon after the failure of the mission, ISRO officials put the entire system on "emergency condition".

The jubilation among the scientists at the control station of the Space Centre immediately after the launch soon turned into despair as the launch vehicle hurtled down into the Bay of Bengal.

The INSAT-42 launch debacle came a day after the Agni-III nuclear-capable ballistic missile with a range up to 3,500km, failed to hit its target off the coast of Orissa and splashed into the sea.

The INSAT-4C satellite was the heaviest in its class. This was the first launch of GSLV from the Rs 350-crore sophisticated launch pad, commissioned in May 2005.

The 49-metre-tall, 414 tonne GSLV was a three-stage vehicle. The first stage, GS1, comprised a core motor with 138 tonne of solid propellants and four strap-on motors, each with 42 tonnes of hypergolic liquid propellant.

The second stage had 39 tonne of the same hypergolic liquid propellant. The third (GS3) was a cryogenic stage with 12.6 tonne of Liquid Oxygen (LOX) and Liquid Hydrogen (LH2).

The INSAT 4C, the second satellite in the INSAT 4 series, was aimed at strengthening video picture transmission besides providing space for National Informatics Centre's VSAT connectivity. The lifespan of the satellite was expected to be 10 years.


Ouch, two major losses within a week. What's up with DRDO? And India's space program is kinda decent too. Surprising this happened especially right after the Agni-III crash.
 

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
Has anybody else noticed a spate of aerial failures recently ?

I mean the North Koreans were first but there's also been 2 plane crashes as well and now two more missile failures all within 2 weeks
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
yeah, but its just coincedence, unless some evil force is behind all this.

This is all a setback for india, but its not that bad. Their sicentists will make appropriate changes and the missle will suceed(unless this becomes another LCA/Arjun)
 

crazyinsane105

Junior Member
VIP Professional
MIGleader said:
yeah, but its just coincedence, unless some evil force is behind all this.

This is all a setback for india, but its not that bad. Their sicentists will make appropriate changes and the missle will suceed(unless this becomes another LCA/Arjun)

Well, a Pakistani scientist gave an unusually harsh statement towards the Indian defense engineers:




Islamabad, July 10 (IANS) The failure of Agni-III reflected 'incompetence' of the Indian missile designers and planners, said an eminent Pakistani scientist.

They would need to go back to the drawing board and take two to three years, unless 'they borrow something from abroad,' said Samar Mubarikmund, chairman of Pakistan's National Engineering and Science Commission (Nescom).

Claiming that Israel was involved in developing India's missile programme, Mubarikmund said Pakistan, which had an 'indigenous' programme of its own, retained superiority over all others in the South Asian region.

Mubarikmund told The News Sunday that the circumstances narrated by the Indians for the failure of the missile test were 'not acceptable.'

The Indian missile met a disaster as it could not attain the altitude where the first stage is over or the second is even ignited.

He disputed the Indian claim, saying that with the range of 3,500 km, the missile had to go above about 800-900 km while the second stage had to be ignited at 28 to 30 km.

'If the missile fell from the height of 12 km, it establishes that either it's motor rocket, the basics of the missile proved failure or the guidance and control system was faulty. In both the probabilities, Indian technology has been exposed in clumsy manners.'

'It is interesting to watch that Indian missile programme that was initiated by French and US assistance and later New Delhi also borrowed Russian technical support has been facing tragedies from the beginning,' the newspaper quoted him as saying.

The newspaper also quoted from official sources to take pot shots at Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

'In fact he (Manmohan Singh) attained high moral ground for his country just to provide cover to constant failures of his country's scientists engaged in developing long-range missiles and they were hesitating from testing the missile,' the sources said.

Pakistan is still maintaining its superiority in missile technology in whole South Asia as it has successfully tested number of missiles with various ranges including Shaheen-II that has the range of the 2,500 km with all remarkably accurate parameters.

These parameters proved in the presence of international neutral empires when the missile hit the target to extent of centimetres accuracy in the Indian Ocean, the sources said.


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In the past Pakistan kept mostly silent about India's defense failures...
 

Indianfighter

Junior Member
Firstly, the failure of the Agni-III missile test are reported in the thread "Indian forces woefully short of equiment". Hence, this thread was redundant. That thread is not only a "bulletin board" as Gollevainen described it, but also meant for discussion. I post articles regularly, but unfortunately, discussions do not take place there.

crazyinsane105 said:
Well, a Pakistani scientist gave an unusually harsh statement towards the Indian defense engineers:

Islamabad, July 10 (IANS) The failure of Agni-III reflected 'incompetence' of the Indian missile designers and planners, said an eminent Pakistani scientist.
This statement is unwarranted. A country whose missile program depends mostly upon China and North Korea cannot make comments such as "incompetancy" on others. Its similar to ISRO criticizing NASA over the failure of the descent of Shuttle Columbia.

They would need to go back to the drawing board and take two to three years, unless 'they borrow something from abroad,' said Samar Mubarikmund, chairman of Pakistan's National Engineering and Science Commission (Nescom).
The next tests of Agni-III shall take place in August to October (report has been posted in another thread).
Claiming that Israel was involved in developing India's missile programme, Mubarikmund said Pakistan, which had an 'indigenous' programme of its own, retained superiority over all others in the South Asian region.
The above statement is completely inaccurate. Israel does not provide technology to India's ballistic missile program, and neither is Pakistan's missile program indigenous (its far from that).
Mubarikmund told The News Sunday that the circumstances narrated by the Indians for the failure of the missile test were 'not acceptable.'
The Indian missile met a disaster as it could not attain the altitude where the first stage is over or the second is even ignited.
.......
'If the missile fell from the height of 12 km, it establishes that either it's motor rocket, the basics of the missile proved failure or the guidance and control system was faulty. In both the probabilities, Indian technology has been exposed in clumsy manners.'
The detailed report of the failure of the missile was released 4 days after this statement was made by Mr. Mubarakmand. The missile failed because the propellant used was unsuitable to give the Agni-III missile higher thrust and was not compatible with the propellant of the second stage.

"Elaborating upon the importance of the propellant, scientists said the propellant used for this test was similar to that used for Agni-II which has a range of hitting a target at 2,000 kms. However, if the objective is to hit a target beyond 2,000 kms, the chemical specifications of the solid fuel propellant have to be changed to give additional thrust to the missile, scientists said.

Explaining further, they said the Agni-III, most probably, developed a snag as the booster of the missile, used to ignite the missile was not compatible with the second stage of hitting the target. This problem occurred due to design failure as the diameter of the missile was increased to store more propellant without changing its composition technically known as specific impulse composition.

Moreover, DRDO tried some new technologies including rocket motors with burn duration of more than 100 seconds, fault tolerant avionics and launch control systems. The mission team also tested the velocity of the vehicle that is capable of flying at 16 to 17 times the speed of sound."

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"Experts reveal that for Agni III, the DRDO had designed and built an all-new rocket configuration as compared to the earlier versions. The missile was a stubby and much shorter version of Agni II, but packed almost twice the rocket power. DRDO had developed two new solid fuel motors that were being tested for the first time. It had also incorporated an advanced flex nozzle capability for guidance control. After the crash, DRDO appointed a failure review committee. The problem, it is learnt, occurred in the first stage itself, where a faulty component in the guidance system seemed to have thrown the missile off course and sent it hurtling into the Bay instead of its planned splash down in the Indian Ocean."

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The reason for the failure of the separation of the first-stage and the second stage is likely due to the combination of the above 2 causes.
The propellant of the first-stage did not generate enough thrust, and the guidance mechanism did not guage the
altitude and other parameters properly to take corrective measures for the same.
'It is interesting to watch that Indian missile programme that was initiated by French and US assistance and later New Delhi also borrowed Russian technical support has been facing tragedies from the beginning,' the newspaper quoted him as saying.
No inputs from Russia are present in India's missile program, except the Brahmos which was the product of an Indo-Russian joint venture.

NASA and France provided technical assistance to India's space program in the late 1960s and early 1970s. There have been no technical inputs since.
 
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