Aerodynamics thread

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
OK, ENOUGH.

Any more comparisons and back and forth about the SU-30MKIs and the Typhoon/Eurofighter, and one being the "better," finding quotes to support one or the other side...are simply going to be deleted.

As is the case with most fighter pilots who have hot aircraft...they are enamored with their aircraft and will swear that theirs is best...no matter what. And so do their supporters.

It's been beat to death here.

If more of that is posted...it will be deleted and posters be warned. If it continues...posters will be suspended.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS MODERATION
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
My understand is that fixed IR sensor installations use Stirling engine based cryocooler, not gas cooling. Like this,
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Such coolers are impractical for sensors in IR missiles because of size .

Assuming the IRST can pick up, track, and engage a target at the range claimed in the spec:
how can a radar guided missile like the AIM-120 actually acquire and track the target if the radar couldn't find it? Does it track the stealth enemy aircraft via datalinking with the IRST?

Idea would be to use IR-guided missiles against IR detected targets . Older generations of active radar guided missiles have relatively simple mechanically-steered radars . such missiles have problems tracking targets with low X-band RCS and/or DRFM jammers .

Missile producers are trying to put AESA radars in air-to-air missiles (one example is K-77M izdeliye 180 for PAK FA) , but most likely future lies in IR missiles with image recognition .
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Such coolers are impractical for sensors in IR missiles because of size .



Idea would be to use IR-guided missiles against IR detected targets . Older generations of active radar guided missiles have relatively simple mechanically-steered radars . such missiles have problems tracking targets with low X-band RCS and/or DRFM jammers .

Missile producers are trying to put AESA radars in air-to-air missiles (one example is K-77M izdeliye 180 for PAK FA) , but most likely future lies in IR missiles with image recognition .

As optical recognition algorithms get better radar homing may become obsolete in the mid range. Of course, the future may not be either or. Composite sensors may become viable with advances in technology.
 

shen

Senior Member
Actually the exact system Shen posted is installed in AAM-5B or type 4 AAM Kai by again Mistubishi and is scheduled to come online next year.

I didn't suggest cryocooler would be used on IR missiles actually. For airplane onboard IRST, such cooling system would make sense. For a missile seeker, which would be only active for a short period of time, a bottle of liquid nitrogen is lighter in weight.
Interesting if Japanese missile use cryocooler instead. Sources? what advantage would it give?
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
I didn't suggest cryocooler would be used on IR missiles actually. For airplane onboard IRST, such cooling system would make sense. For a missile seeker, which would be only active for a short period of time, a bottle of liquid nitrogen is lighter in weight.
Interesting if Japanese missile use cryocooler instead. Sources? what advantage would it give?
I'm talking about the Stirling engine based cryocooler.
It written within the Wiki Japanese version of
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.

04式空対空誘導弾(改)では
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の戦力化に伴う
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の空中哨戒の長時間化へ対応するために
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から
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による
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に変更して、ガスタンクを必要とせず電力供給のみでシーカー部の冷却を行えるようにしており、2波長赤外線センサの採用による対
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(IRCCM)と背景識別能力の向上も図られている。実用試験は2015年(平成27年)を計画しており
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、2016年(平成28年)からの部隊導入を目指している。
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
I'm talking about the Stirling engine based cryocooler.
It written within the Wiki Japanese version of
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.

actually gents, non of these posts tell us anything about aerodynamics, I would suggest you start a thread on targeting and tracking of A2A targets by these proposed missiles, but Sam I would love to hear your take on the aero's of your proposed fifth gen bird?
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
actually gents, non of these posts tell us anything about aerodynamics, I would suggest you start a thread on targeting and tracking of A2A targets by these proposed missiles, but Sam I would love to hear your take on the aero's of your proposed fifth gen bird?

Mr. Forbin has broached the topic of special aerodynamic operational considerations in the F-35 Bravo, similar to the maneuvers that advanced operators of the lovely Sea Harrier employed in air combat? throwing on the brakes, hovering, etc, etc,. He has peaked my curiosity and I will do a little research?? SO? These seems like the appropriate thread to ask the question, feel free to throw any real sources you might have, dash-1 operations manual? whatever, conjecture? and lets see if we can find him some answers?
 

delft

Brigadier
Mr. Forbin has broached the topic of special aerodynamic operational considerations in the F-35 Bravo, similar to the maneuvers that advanced operators of the lovely Sea Harrier employed in air combat? throwing on the brakes, hovering, etc, etc,. He has peaked my curiosity and I will do a little research?? SO? These seems like the appropriate thread to ask the question, feel free to throw any real sources you might have, dash-1 operations manual? whatever, conjecture? and lets see if we can find him some answers?
I would always be afraid of loosing kinetic energy and so perhaps be forced to dive at a moment your opponent can expect. The Harrier could use these manoevres because at that time missiles were not able to turn as fast as they are now so sacrificing speed it order to get into a good firing position made sense. I'm afraid that this has become useless by now.
 
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