A typical PLAN fleet

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Soyuz said:
just read there that they were originally built for the Iranians but the events of 1979 meant they ended up in U.S service! :D

That is correct...and the US Navy was happy to have them. They still have a good fifteen years or more service life in them easily.
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
but what'll happen to those ships when taiwan and china rejoin? will the us just let china have 4 of the most powerful ships in the world?
 

Soyuz

New Member
MIGleader said:
but what'll happen to those ships when taiwan and china rejoin? will the us just let china have 4 of the most powerful ships in the world?
Well if the PRC retakes the island through force i think it'll be unlikely that all four of those ships will survive, Even the taiwanese admit this!
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Also i don't think that the Kidds are as powerful as they seem on paper, and they are apparently not well suited for the tasks they will have to perform while in service with the Taiwanese navy.
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Well if there are any left after China and Taiwan are reunited then maybe the chinese will turn them into a floating casino :D .
 

Su-27 Pilot

Junior Member
Jeff Head said:
My understanding is that they have already been sold to the ROC. I am not sure if they were a part of the defense bill that has been tied up in the ROC legislature or not. If not, they may already be over there being prepared for outfitting, training, etc.

The KIDDs were called AEGIS light here in the US because of how strong their all around capabilities were, particularly in AAW with the two twin launchers that were the same as the CGNs at the time In addition, they can be controlled and managed by an AEGIS capable CG or DDG (Tico or Burke) and this has to be part of the reason they will be so valuable to the ROCN.

If the US fights alongside them, then US Aegis vessels can make the most of their capabilities...or if the ROC ultimately obtains AEGIS vessels themselves, and I believe they may well, then they will be able to integrate them into a battle space environment in that fashion themselves.

Even by themselves, IMHO, the KIDDs are probably the most capableDDGs in the region now, short of the Japanese Kongos or US AEGIS vessels.
Without the USN's support what kind of role will those four ships play as a counterstrike against the main attacking naval forces from the PLAN and the PLAAF during the taiwan conflict (Only If )
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
well, if taiwan and china have a peaceful reunion, what will happen? china could examine them and let them enter service as part of a foiurth fleet, made upo of taiwanese warships.
 

Raven

New Member
KIDD Class DDGs

These four ships are excellent vessels. In fact, they were built with lessons from the Spruance Class DDs which also share many of the features and hull design of the Ticos. The Kidds were actually supposed to be sent to the Navy of Iran but as they were completed, the Shah was removed from power and the US Navy kept the four ships and named them after US Navy Admirals killed in WWII. All four ships had air conditioner units due to the heat of the Persian Gulf. Americans loved the ships and I know people who served on three of them. In fact, they would be very easily converted to MARK 41 VLS ships and possibly semi Aegis sistems. These ships are very capable and I was very surprised to see them removed from the USN order of Battle. Save for the newest Burke Class DDGs, they had the advantage of fielding two LAMPS helos, be they SH-2F/Gs or SH-60F/Rs. They are excellent in either surface to surface,surface to air or ASW missions. They DDGs are as flexible as you can get without being a DDG51 or Soveremny.
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
Well, kidds don't have the radar system like 52c. but thats pretty much only disadvantage. 52c is just a far smaller ship than a kidd. I'll compare with sovremenny.

Kidds max displacement is over 9700 tons. Sovs is over 7900 tons. So it's clearly a bigger ship. Kidd is 171m long whereas sov is 156m long.

Both have max speed of 33 knots.

Sovremenny carries one helo where kidd carries two.

Kidd has 8 harpoons, sov has 8 moskits. or 8 improved moskits for sovremenny 956EM. So when it comes to antiship missiles, one can say sovremenny is superior.

Old sovremenny has poor SAM capability, carries 48 sa-n-7 missiles, some 25 km range. improved sovremenny has 24 sa-n-12 missiles, of some 32-50 km range (exact figures range widely for it). Compared to that, kidds mk26 launchers hold 68 missiles, so that'd be a max of 68 sm2 sams (70 km range). Pretty clear that kidd is a superior anti aircraft platform.

Old sovs has two 130mm turrets plus 4 ak630 ciws. new chinese sovs allegedly have those ak630s replaced with 2 kashtan systems. Kidd has 2 five inch guns and 2 phalanx. If kashtan deployment turns out to be true, it'd be a more potent ciws soluton that what kidd has.

it has to be said that 'old' sovs are not actually that old. they may have been sitting in the shipyards for years half completed but they've served only some 5 years now. And 2 improved sovremmenies will be brand new. Opposite of that, kidds have served many years and probably would benefit from some refit, further increasing their cost.

In the end, if cost is not a factor, kidds for taiwan would mean a significant boost, especially in ASW and AAW roles, while its antiship capability would be limited, not just to sovremennies but to other chinese ships equipped with 200km range missiles.
 

Soyuz

New Member
I'm not so sure about the superiority of these Kidd DDGs over current chinese vessels.

Although they have a heavy AA weapons fit in the standard missile mk2, which is superior to anything the PLAN has. However the full capabilities of this weapon cannot be realised without the use of Aegis radar which the Taiwanese don't have.

Also in terms of anti ship armament i would say the Sovremenny class armed with 8 of the potent SS-N-22 supersonic anti ship missiles, which are so fast that it gives the target ship almost no chance of employing it's defences, is superior to the Harpoon equipped Kidds.
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The Kidds perform best out in the open ocean operating as part of a CBG, they will not be well suited to operating in a littoral warfare environment which they will encounter in an invasion scenario, by virtue of their size and lack of mobility which will make them an easy target.

Also the cost of operating these ships is massive both financially and in terms of manpower and this is probably why the U.S wants rid of them so much (they had already tried selling them to Australia and Greece).
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I think the Taiwanese don't really want to take these ships on, they would probably rather have Aegis destroyers but the U.S probably refused to supply this and so they have had to settle for the Kidds instead.
 
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