9 Hong Kong tourist dead in Manila hostage shootout

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
As we mourn for the dead... I can't help but think... the incompetency of the police is so obvious... I am wondering what would be the daily life of an average Filipino. Who are they going to turn to when they face with a crisis...
 
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mivacabill

Just Hatched
Registered Member
My Dear Countrymen/women Pinoys, First of all, before I take out my precious balut that I had kept last night, I will like on to apologized to the victim’s families and the sheer horror that they had endured for the last weeks. “Paumanhin para sa lahat ng mga misgivings. “

We had all learned a good lesson from this sad episode and are willing to move ahead to make ourselves better in this world esp. the following for the future. A lot of things that we had done wrong and there are just too many that I may had missed but nonetheless, these are simple to change and do not need millions and years of training.

• In future we had to assume any gunman, (Mendoza inclusive) is willing to shoot and kill and will retreat to his own security of the sanctuary (in this case the bus). We should drop our “buddy buddy “type of relationship with hostage taker. They should now considered public enemies and are downright criminals. Hence we should take him out at the first opportunity.

* In future let us stop using this excuse that it is illegal in Philippines to take him out, taking out. This is insulting to other SWAT teams everywhere and our logic holds no water. (Looking at hindsight). Our pinoy negotiators or plain clothes can be even wrestling him down or shooting him in the legs by our “finest” sharpshooters. Others had done that and we will be laughing stock if we stick to this excuse again and again trying to shed off our lack of common sense to save a higher priority i.e. the hostages are at stake and the gunman is only one.

• In future, our dear Pinoy risk assessment committee or the ground commander, pls comply with gunman’s demands as he was only asking for is a signed piece of paper, after the entire note will be useless and under duress and our negotiator should known better. There is a thing known as duress when signed and saving life is more important. If pinoy ground commander don’t give in to the Mendoza’s demands and don’t take him out, then what is he waiting for???
Wearing him out as what you assume is a hell of a time wasted and it looks the major or the commanders were worn out faster than him (retreating into coffee shops and restaurants for a bite or a nap)

• In future we should demand that politicians, specific ground commanders and not “crisis committees” with nameless entities to take responsibility. There should be someone who is able to take decision even to make out the paper or note for our Mendoza, time is of haste and there is life involved and if we had done so earlier, then our Hong Kong friends wouldn’t lambasted us so much.

• In future “panginoon ko!!” Pls do not arrest relatives of gunman and broadcast it live to incite the gunman further. The relative will tend to make a dramatic show and with coupled our own dramatic Pinoy fellow officers, the drama will never end. This is dangerous as the hostage pinoy may have seen it on TV in his bus. The rest of the world will “die” from laughing.

• In future, pls do not televise crime scene if hostage taker has access to a television, the video and commentary may incite him further. We just don’t know when the incitement starts and ends. So why take the trouble when there are so many medium around and our pinoy policemen (5 of them) need to tackle Mendoza’s kid brother.

• In future, get a real team ready (and I mean a real SWAT team) not the ones from our Manila precinct. (Sorry Wa ako Klong) And pls do not hesitate to shoot or decacipitate the gunman out ASAP when the negotiations ends before he even shoots, as once he does so, he will back into a corner and shoot more hostages. Remember you just don’t have the equipment or skills to storm the bus within 3 minutes. Let’s be frank on this. “Sinangayon?”

• Oh Please, Do not think you can smash door of bus with a sledgehammer but only lose sledgehammer in bus, there is a simple lever outside the bus that will open the door automatically. If you are not sure, please ask the travel / tour bus management. It’s no magic.

• Do not randomly smash bus windows. Causing small holes will do no one any good, as the holes is too small for your 38in belly size to go in and you may be hurt trying to squeeze in tiny cracks made by your own hammer. Furthermore you may hit someone in the head as you cannot see with the curtains drawn.

* Smashing bus windows will also anger the hostage take more as this is noisy and give him more time to find out what’s happening with all the smashing.

• In future pls use combat arms such as small stock sub machine guns or those MP5 instead of unwieldy assault rifles. They not only get into the way when you are in the bus but also may create confusion as to who fires which type of rounds.

• Pls do not throw glow sticks into the bus, this is very sad and especially after the bus has been filled with tear gas. What can glow sticks do and people can recognize the glow sticks. If have nothing to throw, then don’t throw anything.

• Do not pepper the side of the bus with automatic gunfire; remember there are hostages on board who may be alive. You just cannot see where they are with the curtains drawn. The press and viewers will be befuddled on such acts.

• Do not storm onto the bus and open up with automatic gunfire after tear gas has been dispensed, tear gas will cause the hostages to stand up and run for the exits or suffocate

• Do demand training and equipment for our police and pls actually attend the training if there is any. And if there are any, even though they are terribly not to standards, pls attend and do not skip classes.

* When the shooting is over, please do not waste any more time by shouting this order and that order to gain into the limelight of the TV and media crew. Just remember to quickly get on the bus and attend to the injured hostages. Any second counts as they may be dying and you are bothered to only giving unnecessary ground command. The hostage taker is well dead, flopping over the doorway.

• Do not allow police or anyone to pose for photos at shooting site; this is disrespectful to the dead and their families.

• Remember that each police officer has a sworn duty, they are not required to risk their lives 99% of the time but they are paid and armed to respond appropriately the 1% of the time that they face a dangerous situation, if not then they is in the wrong profession. They should know risking is all about what the job is about and clamoring on that ridicules other professional Police forces world wide.

• Do not cover caskets of murdered foreign nationals with our flag without first seeking approval from surviving family members. He is no hero but a criminal who had shot scores of innocent people.

* Do not glamorize the murderer. Anyone who shoots innocent people is a downright scum and criminals. Period. Irrespective his background or his grouse.

• Do not tolerate our president grinning like a blue ass fly at the scenes where he is not supposed to. If he had a smiling face, at least ask him to put up a show to show his “grief” for that event.

• think of people first and tourism second and our sentiments last.

• Our First Rule - Do not blame the victims nor anyone who criticized us Pinoy or our government.

• Our 2nd Rule -Do not blame the nations of the victims too who criticized us or our system

• Our 3rd Rule – Pls see our First Rule again.

• Do not get into a war of words on internet forums, posters are all anonymous and there are many who misrepresent themselves and would like nothing better than to start a conflict between Asians. You have better things to do to improve and to using your energy to achieve more in the society. Blaming others and angry in self pithiness definitely would not help our country.

• Do not avoid blame by citing similar incidents that may have occurred in other countries in the past, they do not justify our current actions.

• Stop blaming foreigners for investing in our country, we would do it ourselves if we could. Its such a simple logic and there will be people laughing at us again if we cant even see this logic.

• And Pls stop your incessant calling for all pinoys to leave foreign countries, they need the jobs and they desperately need to send back money that our country desperately needs. Are you able to give them any job? How can we give them jobs if 300,000 of our pinoys return home in a snap of a finger? They are too shy to tell us, so please stop telling them to come home.

• Stop boasting about how many pinoys understand English and speak English well we understand English because we have been an occupied nation for so long and no foreigners would bother learning our language, understanding English is not a measure of intelligence. And some of our pinoy grasping of the language is not that well either to tell others off.

• Please stop unnecessary air time and your own time, in the forum (unless you don’t have a job to do and is unemployed currently) to bring in far fetched subjects that are unrelated. Everyone will laugh as us more and we can’t win.

* Please stop thinking and insisting that others are blaming our country. They are not. (if you read between the lines). They are only fed up with our system, deeply entrenched in corruption. And stop using the excuse of cultural differences. Corruptions is color blind and not only on certain race nor culture.


* Similarly I will stop here and hope all of us had learned something.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Latest development is that Phillipins police are admitting that there is a good chance some of the hostages were killed by 'friendly fire' ahead of the release of the offical investigation report. This fully vindicates the decision to send in an HK investigation team.

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse for the police it does. My opinion of the performance of the Phillipins police is so low im not even suprised by this.

What i want to know most now is how many of the dead were killed by their rescuers.

What an utter and complete mess. Its actually hard to think of anything that could have gone wrong with a hostage rescue op that didn't actually go wrong here. At least they didn't blow the bus up and kill everyone I guess. :rolleyes:
 

HKSDU

Junior Member
If you look at the video, one of those cough SWAT member sprayed his gun into the bus when firing. And have you notice when they hammer smashed the window, there was a hostage right beside the window. Hearing from TVBJ that victim had his skull smashed from those "SWAT" hammers. The government should be giving a proper apology that has meaning instead of acting cheerful, playing it down, not taking responsibility, and joking around about the apology. They should compensate the victims family, and they ones in hospital. Philippines don't exactly hold high respect within Asian society before this happened anyway, this has really hurt that reputation.

The big question is the Philippines TV show that they do have sniper teams. But yet where were they when this happened?
 
If you look at the video, one of those cough SWAT member sprayed his gun into the bus when firing. And have you notice when they hammer smashed the window, there was a hostage right beside the window. Hearing from TVBJ that victim had his skull smashed from those "SWAT" hammers. The government should be giving a proper apology that has meaning instead of acting cheerful, playing it down, not taking responsibility, and joking around about the apology. They should compensate the victims family, and they ones in hospital. Philippines don't exactly hold high respect within Asian society before this happened anyway, this has really hurt that reputation.

The big question is the Philippines TV show that they do have sniper teams. But yet where were they when this happened?

I was discussing this with my parents 2 weeks ago, and I've said the exact same thing regarding the police spraying the gun. The footage showed it clearly, and I've expressed concerned some might be killed by the police. Now that we see this, seems like it really did happen..
 

Zhong Fei

New Member
To all of you wondering about the stupidity and lack of skill the cops have here in the Philippines I'll tell you guys a few stories.

This Manila Hostage Crisis thing is new for the International News but not for Local News.

Every Time There is a Hostage Crisis here the Hostages or some of the Hostages always die. It does not Matter if the Philippine Military Handles it or the FOOKing SWAT team.

Where do I start?

I'll start at 2005 -2006

I remember there was this 2 year old boy Held hostage by Icepick at a Tram Station. The hostage Taker was demanding a cellphone a Car and everybody to back off. The Media and Cops got too close and the Purp started stabbing the boy. The Boy was crying and was trying to hold the Ice pick but the Cops only Fired after 10 minutes and the boy was dead. :roll:

2007

Some 30 Hostages were taken by the Abu sayyaf group in a Church somewhere in Basilan. THe Abu Sayyaf troop strength was at least 3 dozen. The Army assaulted the Church.

Now this was there Plan. The Plan was to take their 6 wheeled Tanks (I Know BDpopeye knows what I'm talking about since he has been to the Philippines Before) 3 of them. Blow Holes in the Church and hope that some of the hostages would Run out while THe Troops fired at the Abu sayyaf.

I dont have to tell you that Plan was MADE OF FAIL and CURSED WITH STUPIDITY. only a few of the Hostages escaped, The Women Raped, Men Beheaded and the Stupid Philippine Tanks Got Blown up by RPGs. The Failipine Marines got Sniped and when they heard and confirmed that 80+ Abu sayyaf reinforcements were on the way. They abandoned the town where that Church was and left the towns people running for their lives to Local Military checkpoints.

2008 - 2009

Another Boy was taken Hostage this time by a Crack addict or something. I'll give you the short story. When the Hostage taker began stabbing the boy... Instead of a sniper firing a shot or a lone officer who got close fired the shot. The whole Failipine Police opened Fire fresh from there minds from the inaction before. As you know it, it became a firing squad and the boy died of gunshot wounds fired by Cops.

2009

Not far from Where I live. A few Carnappers were identified and stopped at a checkpoint. The Carnappers opened Fire and ran in the middle of Traffic. The Cops opened Fire and hit Motorist. :nana:

2010

Bus Crisis.

A Few Weeks Later

Another great show. This time by Quezon City SWAT. A Criminal Armed with a gun ran from the cops and managed to get in a house and hold Hostages at 10pm. Cops surrounded the House and at 11pm Entered with SWAT. There were 3 Hostages. A father, a teenage daughter and their mom.

Get ready to Laugh or Grit your teeth.

The SWAT team entered the room. no Flashbangs, and only with Flahlights Aimed at the hostage takers Face. They took action. Result.

The Father was killed by the hostage Taker, The Daughter was Hit by cops and Died at the hospital, The mother will commit suicide I bet and the Hostage taker is also Dead with a dozen Shots to the Face.

I'm sorry for the way I posted this. But I feel angry while Typing this
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
O come on this is my First Post for the 3 years I've disappeared from Sinodefence Forum and Not even a welcome Back? :confused:

Basically this is your second post, nobody even know you exist.:D

Anyway, welcome back!:D

Getting back to topic... I have read your earlier posts, and actually I am appalled at the gross incompetence of Philippines polices. My heart goes to the people in the Philippines.
 

Zhong Fei

New Member
thanks Rhino. I was around Sinodefence Forum when we were using that other Website. I forgot, But Tankman, Gollevain and BD Popeye were There. I used stonewind back then. I stopped Posting after it went to this new website and I've just been reading sinodefence Posts for the last 3 years. I did not really post anything until a Few weeks ago when this thread opened and know a few things first hand about it.

Dont shed a tear for the Filipinos here. They are actually Blaming the Spanish, or the Americans for their lack of Equipment and Training. Also they are Blaming the Chinese for Coming here and making them look like Fools. :rofl:The Inferiority Complex we have here is in full Rev.

Well back to Topic.

You know when you guys heard laughter when the Bus was assaulted? That was not laughter at the Hostages, But laughter from the News Crew laughing at the Cops.

Why not Issue a media blackout? Because in the Grand history of the Philippine Cops in front of Cameras they want to look like Heroes.

Also, The Autistic President of the Philippines have said 10 people will be put in Prison and all those people who took photos will be punished. Except for the School Girls. The Philippine government is Kissing Arse Hard at China for a couple of weeks now.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Because in the Grand history of the Philippine Cops in front of Cameras they want to look like Heroes.

Mabuhay Zhong Fei!

35-40 years ago they wanted to be like Jose Estrada and Fernando Poe Jr.. Trouble is the movies are works of fiction.. the tragedy with the bus was real.
 
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