27 dead, in Kunming railway station attack

plawolf

Lieutenant General
The stabbing of one man in the UK is a terrorist attack, the stabbing of nearly 200 in China isn't? What nonsense.

I'm just waiting for the western media to start spinning conspiracy theories about a conspiracy over this atrocity because of censors removing images and posts about the ethnicity of the attackers from the web.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
I hadn't realised any had been killed at the scene, I thought they had fled before the armed police arrived - hence all the discussions here about why police aren't equipped with some sorts of weapons normally. Weren't any captured alive?



Maybe because they're European? We are discussing this in English, after all. Is it so strange I'm going to try to use the word terrorist according to the meaning I believe is correct?

Are you saying that in Chinese "terrorist" is synonymous with the murder of large numbers of people, regardless of the reason - i.e. those disturbed men who murdered schoolchildren are terrorists too?

Well maybe if you spent less time trying to draw distinctions where none exists and paid a tiny bit more attention to the actual facts, you might have noticed that since the very first reports came out it has been reported that most of the attackers were killed or apprehended by police during the course of the attack.
 

superdog

Junior Member
I hadn't realised any had been killed at the scene, I thought they had fled before the armed police arrived - hence all the discussions here about why police aren't equipped with some sorts of weapons normally. Weren't any captured alive?
Then maybe you should spend less time making assumptions and more time checking facts, even wikipedia has been updated about this.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Speeder

Junior Member
The stabbing of one man in the UK is a terrorist attack, the stabbing of nearly 200 in China isn't? What nonsense.

I'm just waiting for the western media to start spinning conspiracy theories about a conspiracy over this atrocity because of censors removing images and posts about the ethnicity of the attackers from the web.

Watching BBC news on this last night was like watching a spin doctor fantasy. It used words like "this kind of ethnic conflicts in China have become more intense in recent years", and "seems that China is so quick to frame Xingjiang seperists for this".

I wonder why 9-11 and 7.7 were not " ethnic conflicts ", but terrorist acts. Were USA and the UK so quick to "frame " Islamist extremists for those terror acts? Talking about western mainstream media disgusting whitewash, nuff said./
 

Mr T

Senior Member
The stabbing of one man in the UK is a terrorist attack, the stabbing of nearly 200 in China isn't? What nonsense.

I think you'll remember that the people that killed Lee Rigby were quick to indicate personally they were terrorists. I still haven't heard anything from the people that carried out the attack or the group behind them. If this is an orchestrated attack, surely someone will claim credit for it. It doesn't make any sense to plan something major like this and be quiet about it.

Could this, for example, have been planned independently by a relatively small group of people without involvement from others? I never had the need to buy a knife when I was in China, but presumably it's not hard.
 

xiabonan

Junior Member
I hadn't realised any had been killed at the scene, I thought they had fled before the armed police arrived - hence all the discussions here about why police aren't equipped with some sorts of weapons normally. Weren't any captured alive?



Maybe because they're European? We are discussing this in English, after all. Is it so strange I'm going to try to use the word terrorist according to the meaning I believe is correct?

Are you saying that in Chinese "terrorist" is synonymous with the murder of large numbers of people, regardless of the reason - i.e. those disturbed men who murdered schoolchildren are terrorists too?

That's not just the Chinese way of defining terrorism and terrorist attacks. In fact, be it the US, UK, EU, or UN, all have given their own version of definition that goes something like this "intended to cause death or serious
bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants with the purpose of intimidating a population OR compelling a
government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing any act".

According to The UN General Assembly Resolution 49/60, it says "Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them"

UN Security Council Resolution 1566 says that terrorism is "criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, intimidate a population or compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act."

Since you brought up Europe, let's see how the EUROPEAN UNION defines terrorism. The European Union defines terrorism for legal/official purposes in Art.1 of the Framework Decision on Combating Terrorism (2002) says that terrorism is "given their nature or context, may seriously damage a country or an international organization where committed with the aim of: seriously intimidating a population; OR unduly compelling a Government or international organization to perform or abstain from performing any act; OR seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization."

The reason why I have highlighted those "OR"s is that I'm afraid you can't understand and interpret the ENGLISH language properly. In the English language "OR" means either, meaning as long as the activity carried out fulfills ONE of the definitions, it should be considered an act of terror.

In this case (EU's definition), it says that as long as the act "seriously intimidate a population" OR "unduly compell a government or international organization to perform or abstain from performing any act" OR "seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organization.", it should be considered a terrorist attack.

Now let's look back at the Kunming attack, it killed nearly 30 lives and severely wounded hundreds, it that's not "seriously intimidate a population", I don't know what is. And this, by EU's definition, makes it a terrorist attack.

Also, look what US says. It says that such attacks "can't be justified" in anyway. Get that? No matter how disturbed you are, no matter how troubled you are, no matter how much hatred you have towards the government or society, the moment you lay your hands on innocent civilians and cost their lives and properties, YOU, ARE, A, TERRORIST. And it can't be justified.

Simple as that
 

xiabonan

Junior Member
Mr.T, I hope you get it.

It's not about whether those people personally identify themselves as terrorists or not.

It's simply not.

A thief doesn't just stop being a thief if he claimed he didn't steal but solid evidence shows otherwise.

A murderer doesn't become innocent if he refuses to admit that he killed, if solid evidence shows otherwise.

If someone kills your whole family tomorrow, and you witnessed it, but that person denies he hadn't done it, does the police just announce that he's innocent and you'll just gladly accept it because "he didn't admit and he doesn't have any hidden agenda"??
 

Mr T

Senior Member
No matter how disturbed you are, no matter how troubled you are, no matter how much hatred you have towards the government or society, the moment you lay your hands on innocent civilians and cost their lives and properties, YOU, ARE, A, TERRORIST.

That sort of goes back to what I was saying earlier, are you suggesting the guys that murdered the school-kids were terrorists too? But never mind, I think your other point is a better one, that the scale of the attack makes it highly likely that it was a terrorist attack.

And it can't be justified.

Is murder of innocents ever justified? I don't think it is. Even if you think you have a good reason, it's not up to individuals to take the lives of uninvolved parties. I have to be really clear on that, I don't care whether people feel aggrieved, they can't kill innocents. I don't see things as "terrorist murder is bad, non-terrorist murder is maybe ok". The murder of innocents is the murder of innocents. I'm also extremely reluctant to excuse the murder of people who might not be considered innocent, because I don't like the idea of people taking matters into their own hands.

And obviously I don't think people should get away with a crime because they denied they did it, if the evidence is there that they did it they have to be convicted.

I hope remaining fugitives are tracked down, by the way.
 
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jobjed

Captain
R.I.P. to the fallen.

Islamists are common curse of mankind, so whole humanity needs to unite against them.

Whoa... let's take it down a notch. "Extremist" Islam, maybe, but all Islam? Seems you're forgetting that Christian extremists also went on a rampage a millennium ago or so, is that also reason to condemn all Christians as a "common curse of mankind"?
 

xiabonan

Junior Member
That sort of goes back to what I was saying earlier, are you suggesting the guys that murdered the school-kids were terrorists too? But never mind, I think your other point is a better one, that the scale of the attack makes it highly likely that it was a terrorist attack.



Is murder of innocents ever justified? I don't think it is. Even if you think you have a good reason, it's not up to individuals to take the lives of uninvolved parties. I have to be really clear on that, I don't care whether people feel aggrieved, they can't kill innocents. I don't see things as "terrorist murder is bad, non-terrorist murder is maybe ok". The murder of innocents is the murder of innocents. I'm also extremely reluctant to excuse the murder of people who might not be considered innocent, because I don't like the idea of people taking matters into their own hands.

And obviously I don't think people should get away with a crime because they denied they did it, if the evidence is there that they did it they have to be convicted.

I hope remaining fugitives are tracked down, by the way.

It's not murder in this case, it's terrorist attack.

Look at those definitions given by whichever country/organization you like or prefer. This is not just "murder of the innocents", this is beyond that.

I simply couldn't understand it: When terrorism happens in Western countries, they can wage a war on a sovereign nation in the name of terror, but when terrorism happens in China, suddenly they aren't even willing to report it as terrorism let alone condemn it! More than that, almost all the reports tries to mention things like high social tension or “Communist suppression of the Uighurs".

And not only that, these people claim that they represent the "universal values" and have total "freedom of press" and "unbiased".

And the general public believe it, buy it. And they accuse of others as being 'brainwashed'.

Seriously?
 
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