27 dead, in Kunming railway station attack

Mr T · Mar 2, 2014

siegecrossbow said:
Well, I don't think this is the right line of thinking. If you have grievances against the Chinese government, don't go around attacking people who probably had no relations to it. There is a word for attacking the defenseless civilian population in hopes of achieving political goals

That's what I meant, they may not have had a desire to achieve political goals. You are definitely right that the usual method is attacking individually. But there have been high-profile knife attacks, so I wondered if people may have banded together.

I'm not trying to say the attacks weren't unspeakable, of course.

siegecrossbow said:
I am 90% sure this is a Uighur terrorist group, possibly with foreign sponsoring and training.

But that's still an assumption, it's not based on hard facts. It's also a dangerous one. Cracking down even more on ordinary, law-abiding Uighurs because the Chinese public assumed the attackers were Uighur, would to make things worse in Xinjiang, not better.

A proper investigation has to be made. Simply blaming Uighurs because it's the normal thing to do is a sign the investigators don't have a clue.

Bltizo said:
I have to say it ticks me off whenever I see them put speech marks around the word terrorists when these attacks happen in china.

I think it may be because such attacks aren't accompanied by political statements. In Europe there's normally a quick statement by the attackers or their groups to show that they were behind it.

xiabonan · Mar 2, 2014

Mr T said:
That's what I meant, they may not have had a desire to achieve political goals. You are definitely right that the usual method is attacking individually. But there have been high-profile knife attacks, so I wondered if people may have banded together.

I'm not trying to say the attacks weren't unspeakable, of course.

But that's still an assumption, it's not based on hard facts. It's also a dangerous one. Cracking down even more on ordinary, law-abiding Uighurs because the Chinese public assumed the attackers were Uighur, would to make things worse in Xinjiang, not better.

A proper investigation has to be made. Simply blaming Uighurs because it's the normal thing to do is a sign the investigators don't have a clue.

I think it may be because such attacks aren't accompanied by political statements. In Europe there's normally a quick statement by the attackers or their groups to show that they were behind it.

So, whether an attack is a terrorist attack or not is based on whether there's any accompanied political statements? So if there's none of those "political statements" attached, 911 or the tragedies that took place in London, Madrid, Mumbai, and Bali, or Boston, would not be terrorist attacks and that Western press would call those "people trying to commit suicide publicly using unconventional methods which are sending people around them to God"?

Hypocrisy and double-standard at its best. Not pointing you, but some of those disgusting Western media.

perfume · Mar 2, 2014

Rutim said:
Relax, they'll find somehow a flag in somebodys pocket, like the last time when they found a flag in completely burned down car in Beijing

Uighur or not, these pictures are all over social media. I wake up this morning and all I see is this post being shared containing warnings about people who wear t-shirts with these markings - apparently it's what some of the attackers were wearing:

xiabonan · Mar 2, 2014

chuck731 said:
This could also be a Tibetan terrorist group.

But I agree Uighur is more likely. The sort of attack against civilians far outside of own territory is a form of terrorism that is relatively new and modern, and not traditional to Uighur or anyone else. While Islamic fundamentalist groups are not the only practitioners of this sort of terrorism, they are certainly by far the most prolific and well known practitioners of this. It certainly seem likely that if it were carred out by uighurs, then the methodology, and possibly finer points of ideology beyond mere anti-Chinese ethnic resentment, is inspired from abroad.

According to eye witnesses who posted on Weibo, these people are wearing black T shirts with the Crescent Moon and Star.

Mr T · Mar 2, 2014

xiabonan said:
So, whether an attack is a terrorist attack or not is based on whether there's any accompanied political statements?

No, an attack is usually identified as being a terrorist incident based on what is known about the motivations of the attack. So if a statement is released, unless the authorities think that group is claiming credit for a random attack to boost its credentials, they can be confident it is a terrorist attack. If there is no statement, they have to wonder why it was carried out.

xiabonan said:
According to eye witnesses who posted on Weibo, these people are wearing black T shirts with the Crescent Moon and Star.

If the authorities could confirm that it would be useful information. Although I expect they won't have recovered any from the scene, if the witnesses independently recall such T-shirts it would give them something to go on.

xiabonan · Mar 2, 2014

Mr T said:
No, an attack is usually identified as being a terrorist incident based on what is known about the motivations of the attack. So if a statement is released, unless the authorities think that group is claiming credit for a random attack to boost its credentials, they can be confident it is a terrorist attack. If there is no statement, they have to wonder why it was carried out.

If the authorities could confirm that it would be useful information. Although I expect they won't have recovered any from the scene, if the witnesses independently recall such T-shirts it would give them something to go on.

You seem to have a different definition of "Terrorist attack".

To me any attack carried out by any individual or group, no matter who's behind it, what are the motives, as long as the attack is carried out to target armless random group of civilians, it should be identified as TERRORISM.

THERE'S NO NEED TO WONDER WHY, AS LONG AS THEY ATTACK INNOCENT CIVILIANS, IT'S A BLOODY DAMN TERRORIST ATTACK.

They still need to investigate who and why they carried out this terrorist attack, but that's a completely different matter altogether.

thunderchief · Mar 2, 2014

R.I.P. to the fallen.

Islamists are common curse of mankind, so whole humanity needs to unite against them.

kickars · Mar 2, 2014

Mr T said:
I think it may be because such attacks aren't accompanied by political statements. In Europe there's normally a quick statement by the attackers or their groups to show that they were behind it.

Why do people need to use European standard to determine whether it's a terror attack when it's happened in China with Chinese lives lost? It's a bit like saying when 7/7 happened UK should've used Chinese standard to decided whether it's a terror attack.

Secondly, did the British and Americans started to call 7/7 and 9/11 as terror attacks after both investigators finding 'evidences' and receiving statements from the attackers? NO. Why somehow when similar things happened in China, west medias need and you need those things before people who killed Chinese public terror attackers.

Can you not see why people in China and some around world often use double standard to describe this kind of mentality?

superdog · Mar 2, 2014

Mr T said:
If the authorities could confirm that it would be useful information. Although I expect they won't have recovered any from the scene, if the witnesses independently recall such T-shirts it would give them something to go on.

What makes you think they won't recover any T-shirt after shooting and killing a few of the terrorists? The authorities already confirmed that this is a terrorist attack conducted by members of the Xinjiang separatist movement. Here is the source, use google translate if you want:

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Mr T · Mar 2, 2014

superdog said:
What makes you think they won't recover any T-shirt after shooting and killing a few of the terrorists?

I hadn't realised any had been killed at the scene, I thought they had fled before the armed police arrived - hence all the discussions here about why police aren't equipped with some sorts of weapons normally. Weren't any captured alive?

kickars said:
Why do people need to use European standard to determine whether it's a terror attack

Maybe because they're European? We are discussing this in English, after all. Is it so strange I'm going to try to use the word terrorist according to the meaning I believe is correct?

Are you saying that in Chinese "terrorist" is synonymous with the murder of large numbers of people, regardless of the reason - i.e. those disturbed men who murdered schoolchildren are terrorists too?

27 dead, in Kunming railway station attack

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