2020: JMSDF & PLAN Surface Combatant strength

Discussion in 'World Armed Forces' started by Jeff Head, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. asif iqbal
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    asif iqbal Brigadier

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    Correct Jeff, it clearly looks huge, hard to see it below 30,000 tons full load

    Wow, biggest vessals by Japan since WWII
     
  2. FORBIN
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    FORBIN Lieutenant General
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    Thanks Jeff for your technical explanation.
     
  3. druid198405
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    druid198405 New Member
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    That is going to be one fine ship, one which I'm sure will carry more than the nine helicopters some people mention she will carry. That is one fine ship, wish Canada would have something like that.
     
  4. bd popeye
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    bd popeye The Last Jedi
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    Off Topic

    In case you did not know...Canada had carriers many years ago..

    Naval Museum of Manitoba - Canadian Naval History

    END Off Topic
     
  5. Jeff Head
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    Jeff Head General
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    To get a better feel for just how big the new 22DDH, Izumo, DDH-183, really is, I thought I would compare it directly to the Wasp Class LHD of the US Navy. So, here is a port side view of the USS Bataan, LHD-5, the fifth US Navy Wasp Class, and from the same perspective on the port side, the view of the newly launched JMSDF Izumo, DDH-183.

    The Wasp is 30 feet longer, it is about 10 feet taller, but it's beam is actually 3-4 feet less, although it's flight deck is a good 15-20 feet wider.


    [​IMG]

    As you can see, the new Japanese vessel is a very large ship. Even at 30,000 tons full load, which is 3,000 tons larger than they admit to, I believe if fully outfitted with aircraft and fuel, it will be closer to 35,000 tons.
     
    #115 Jeff Head, Aug 7, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2013
  6. Jeff Head
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    Jeff Head General
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    #116 Jeff Head, Aug 8, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2013
  7. asif iqbal
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    asif iqbal Brigadier

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    I wonder if the F35C can launch from a carrier, unassisted, probably very unlikely but I'm curious
     
  8. Jeff Head
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    Jeff Head General
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    I believe it probably could do such a thing...but the feasibility of doing so as a normal part of operations would not be workable in terms of any kind of large, maintainable sortie rate. They would simply use too much deck

    For those unaware, in 1963, the US Navy did live tests of flying a C-130 transport off of US Navy super carriers, at that time, the USS Forrestal, CV-59. The Navy wanted to find a longer range COD aircraft than the C-1 Trader they used at that time which only had a range of 300 miles.

    So, despite the fact that many were incredulous over it, the Navy conducted the tests. What they found, surprised them all.

    [quote="Herk: Hero of the Skies, by Joseph Earl Dabney, 1979]Not only was it possible, it was done in moderately rough seas 500 miles out in the North Atlantic off the coast of Boston. In so doing, the airplane became the largest and heaviest aircraft to ever land on an aircraft carrier, a record that stands to this day.

    The aircraft, a KC-130F refueler transport (BuNo 149798), on loan from the U.S. Marines, was delivered on 8 October. Lockheed's only modifications to the original plane included installing a smaller nose-landing gear orifice, an improved anti-skid braking system, and removal of the underwing refueling pods. "The big worry was whether we could meet the maximum sink rate of nine feet per second," the pilot, Flatley said. As it turned out, the Navy was amazed to find they were able to better this mark by a substantial margin.

    In addition to Flatley, the crew consisted of Lt.Cmdr. W.W. Stovall, copilot; ADR-1 E.F. Brennan, flight engineer; and Lockheed engineering flight test pilot Ted H. Limmer, Jr. The initial sea-born landings on 30 October 1963 were made into a 40-knot wind. Altogether, the crew successfully negotiated 29 touch-and-go landings, 21 unarrested full-stop landings, and 21 unassisted takeoffs at gross weights of 85,000 pounds to 121,000 pounds. At 85,000 pounds, the KC-130F came to a complete stop within 267 feet, about twice the aircraft's wing span!

    The Navy was delighted to discover that even with a maximum payload, the plane used only 745 feet for takeoff and 460 feet for landing roll.

    Lockheed's Ted Limmer, who checked out fighter pilot Flatley in the C-130, stayed on for some of the initial touch-and-go and full-stop landings. "The last landing I participated in, we touched down about 150 feet from the end, stopped in 270 feet more and launched from that position, using what was left of the deck. We still had a couple hundred feet left when we lifted off. Admiral Brown was flabbergasted."

    The plane's wingspan cleared the Forrestal's "island" by just under 15 feet as the plane roared down the deck on a specially painted line. Lockheed's chief engineer, Art E. Flock was aboard to observe the testing. "The sea was pretty big that day. I was up on the captain's bridge. I watched a man on the ship's bow as that bow must have gone up and down 30 feet." The speed of the ship was increased 10 knots to reduce yaw motion and to reduce wind direction. Thus, when the plane landed, it had a 40 to 50 knot wind on the nose. "That airplane stopped right opposite the captain's bridge," recalled Flock. "There was cheering and laughing. There on the side of the fuselage, a big sign had been painted on that said, "LOOK MA, NO HOOK."

    From the accumulated test data, the Navy concluded that with the C-130 Hercules, it would be possible to lift 25,000 pounds of cargo 2,500 miles and land it on a carrier. Even so, the idea was considered a bit too risky for the C-130 and the Navy elected to use the smaller, new COD aircraft based on the E-2 Hawkeye, the C-2 Grayhound, which is in use to this day.

    For his effort, the Navy awarded Flatley the Distinguished Flying Cross.
    [/quote]

    Here are some pictures from that testing:


    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]


    So, I believe they could do it...and perhaps would do it in an extreme combat situation if somehow all four cats were out of service but the ship was otherwise fightable.
     
  9. SamuraiBlue
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    SamuraiBlue Captain

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    Reading this thread it seems as if everyone is forgetting the Hatakaze class DDG. JMSDF had made a requisition to replace the two ships with an enhanced Atago class which will be equipped with the most advanced BMD suite and SM-3 missiles.
    At around 2020 the Asagiri class DD would also be put out for advanced version of the Akizuki class.I don't know what are the plans for the Abukuma class DE but they would also be scheduled for replacements as well.
     
  10. Jeff Head
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    Jeff Head General
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    We are aware that two new Atago AEGIS DDGs are proposed, and that the 26DD project is coming on behind the Akizuki.

    We just haven't gotten into a lot of detail on it yet.
     
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