2019 India-Pakistani border clash

Discussion in 'World Armed Forces' started by [email protected], Feb 27, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. asif iqbal
    Online

    asif iqbal Brigadier

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2006
    Messages:
    8,984
    Likes Received:
    9,026
    Get one thing straight and that is Indian jets were shot down and faced the consequences

    If you don’t want to lose your fighters don’t send them to bomb someone else’s country

    Pakistan Air Force the masters of in close combat

    Within visual range moral is don’t dog fight Pakistani pilots
     
    Yodello, Neutral Zone and Equation like this.
  2. schrage musik
    Offline

    schrage musik New Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    87
    Here is an eyewitness account of the aircraft that came down in Pakistani territory:



    The journalist in the video interviews two people. The first one, the younger guy is the one who caught the pilot. The second, older guy is the one who had first seen the aircraft and parachutes landing and he is the one who called the first guy and others to the spot. I'll summarize what they are saying:

    First Eyewitness says:
    I found him moving around here, and the first thing he asked me when I saw him was "is this India or Pakistan". I replied that you are in India, just to make him feel relaxed so I could catch him... it took me around half an hour.....

    She interrupts him:
    So you live here and all this happened in front of you and you are the one who caught him?

    First Eyewitness:
    Yes i was the one who caught him. This other guy phoned me and told me there was an aircraft on fire here.... He (the downed pilot) actually fired 4 or 5 times at me and i barely managed to dodge his shots and then i caught him. Then these other people arrived and 5 or 6 minutes after that the army also arrived and we handed him over to them.

    She then turnsto the 2nd eyewitness.

    He says:
    I live right here and this here is my buddy. i saw the whole scene with my own eyes...the plane crash.. and i called 4-5 people at the time. When the plane crashed, a little while after that i saw one parachute landing on this side of the mountain and another parachute coming down on the other (southern) side of the mountain. When these boys arrived here on this (north) side of the mountain and saw the pilot, the first thing he asked them was: is this india or pakistan? They deliberately told him that this is Indian territory. So he then asked them the name of this village.. they replied that it was named 'kella'. When he heard this he got excited and started raising slogans saying long live India, etc. That made these boys agitated and they started shouting "long live Pakistan Army" and so forth and right then .... (she interrupts him and wraps the interview up).



    This is a strong indication that a two seat aircraft was downed. As the witness says he saw one plane and two parachutes, and the probabliity of the two pilots having ejected from two different aircraft at the same time at the same place is extremely low.

    This also fits in with the official statement from Pakistani Military earlier today that said of the two aircraft show down, one crashed in Pakistan while the other managed to cross over to Indian territory before crashing. And the reports that they were looking for two more pilots in addition to the one who was caught.
     
    #82 schrage musik, Feb 27, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2019
    Yodello, jobjed, MastanKhan and 4 others like this.
  3. Biscuits
    Offline

    Biscuits Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2018
    Messages:
    698
    Likes Received:
    973
    It also explains the strange incident of MiG 21s being sent to intercept.

    The MiGs were never there to intercept alone, they were there as bomb trucks for Flankers, which India's media claimed were there until they abruptly took down that claim when fighters were downed.

    This is in line with accepted strategies. Same for PLAAF, you will never see JH-7s being sent to confront alone, but JH-7s CAN appear as supporting craft for J16s or J10s.
     
  4. schrage musik
    Offline

    schrage musik New Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    87
    Absolutely, no air force in their right mind would send a lone Mig-21 or even a pair of Mig-21s over into enemy territory for intercepting superior aircraft. It just doesn't make any sense.
     
  5. plawolf
    Offline

    plawolf Brigadier

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,212
    Likes Received:
    12,866
    There have been clips posted of a documentary on a MKI squadron with the captured pilot in it. That only proves he was MKI qualified and by itself does not rule out the possibility that he was subsequently transferred to a Mig21 unit.

    However, if he was in a twin seater when shot down, it would strongly support (but obviously not definitely so) the earlier claim that the second downed IAF jet was a Flanker, as the pilot of the well photographed Bison could have bailed out over Indian territory or evaded capture.

    India did not acknowledge even that they lost any aircraft until irrefutable proof have already been published by Pakistan. So it would be a trivial thing for them to say the captured pilot was piloting the Mig if they recovered the mig pilot and secured the MKI crash site on their end.

    Although in this day and age, it seems unlikely you would be able to suppress something like a downed MKI, as nearly everyone has cameraphones, and every available ISR satellite in the world would probably be converging on the area right now. A smoking crash site would be pretty hard to cover up from eyes in space.
     
    Yodello, Equation, taxiya and 4 others like this.
  6. schrage musik
    Offline

    schrage musik New Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    87
    Yes, I'm aware of that documentary: he is/was definitely an MKI driver. The Indians on some forums are however claiming that he went on to fly Mig 21s after being on the MKI. I dont know how much sense that makes? In view of the eyewitness accounts it is looking increasingly likely that he was in a two seat aircraft when shot down. A big big pointer towards a flanker.

    Also, it is possible that the footage of the crash from Kashmir is of a helicopter. The second aircraft that was shot down may possibly have crashed at some other remote location. The region is highly mountainous and sparsely populated. It is quite possible for the Indians to seal off access to a crash site in those remote mountains. They are not saying a word, either.
     
    #86 schrage musik, Feb 27, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
    Yodello likes this.
  7. plawolf
    Offline

    plawolf Brigadier

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,212
    Likes Received:
    12,866
    In the documentary, he looked much younger.

    There are only so many command positions in any fighter unit.

    As such, it would not really be unusual for a MKI driver to move to another unit flying a different type if it meant he would be commanding said unit instead of just being another pilot in a MKI unit.

    If he has command aspirations (which would be natural if he is the son of a formal Air Marshal as reported), then it wouldn’t be that surprising if he placed command opportunities above what he was flying.
     
  8. localizer
    Offline

    localizer Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    744
    Likes Received:
    1,215
    Jesus CHrist. Is it possible for Modi to resign after this?
     
    antiterror13 likes this.
  9. AssassinsMace
    Offline

    AssassinsMace Brigadier

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    8,006
    Likes Received:
    9,869
    I guess the National Interest got their war they've been pushing for. If these reports are true, not what they were expecting and getting excited over in pushing other countries into war. The media played up the Indian strike as an uncontested success. Now these air battles are painting another picture to where as reports come in, they all of the sudden want to be careful with what's reported.

    Is the walrus mustache a legacy of British colonialism?
     
    Yodello, Equation and Aliusman like this.
  10. plawolf
    Offline

    plawolf Brigadier

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,212
    Likes Received:
    12,866
    I think that must be the best cast scenario here, as he will get absolutely obliterated in the upcoming elections as things stand.

    If he wants to remain as PM, then he will need to double down and try and produce a military victory to eclipse this humiliating loss, but that would mean yet another escalation, which could easily spiral out of all control.
     
    Yodello and Neutral Zone like this.
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page