1 confirmed kill, Indian mig-21-93. By JF-17.
Another 2/3 were circulated today, 1 Indian su-30mki and/or mirage-2000, 1 Pakistani f-16. All unverifiable.
2019 India-Pakistani border clash
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Another 2/3 were circulated today, 1 Indian su-30mki and/or mirage-2000, 1 Pakistani f-16. All unverifiable.
JF-17 finally has kill ratio of 2 Aircrafts shot down. This is related to this forum. All that work in creation of JF-17 and the development of tactics has finally bear fruit where our jet was successful in its deployment. One AC is Mig-21 Bison, dont know what was teh second aircraft, some are saying Su-30 shot in BVR engagement with JF-17.
Looking at the image of the 2nd crash, it at least doesn’t look like a single engine fighter.
Hard to say whether it is MKI though. It could be MiG 29 too.
I would lean towards MKI though. This morning, Indian media reported on Su30s intercepting Pakistani jets. Then after Pakistan claimed the shoot down, they retconned the role of the Su30s and claim they were actually all MiG 21s. No one ever named MiG 29.
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if all of what you say is true then there is one thing that must be noted which is the reaction time of the Pakistani military. It took India about a week the reconnoiter potential objectives, and coordinate plans for an airstrike, but Pakistan's counter-strike only took 48 hrs. Now a relatively simple patrol operation or other types of low-intensity conflict action by a platoon sized team would require around three days of planning. For pakistan to come up with something in 48 hrs is very impressive speed.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
That is assuming PAF only started planning for this raid after the IAF bombing earlier.
However, most militaries would and should have all sorts of contingency plans drawn up, so it is entirely possible the PAF simply chose the best game plan they had pre-prepared and executed it.
Something else worth noting is the death count from the Mi17 crash.
Initial Indian reports put the death toll at 4, but now the reports are up to 7 dead.
Seems a little suspicious and it would certainly be a perfect way to cover up fatalities from a second downed fighter that crashed on the Indian side if they added the dead pilots to the Mi17 crew manifest and claimed they died in that crash.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
Regrdless of the macro level report of who shot down what, how many died etc. what is FACTUAL is IAF intruded PAF airspace to conduct military strikes against targets inside the border (we can argue justification later) and in response PAF scramble jets in which there was a likely possible live fire engagement between 2 sovereign powers and nuclear states.
This is EXTREMELY serious. This is by far the MOST serious military event in recent years.
I hope this incident does not diminished the original air strikes by IAF also. Were the targets legitimate and was it done to prevent some inevitable terror attacks on India etc?
Since IAF was the initial aggressor they also have to prove that all necessary measures have either been exhausted or ignored by Pakistan before embarking on such a critical mission.
If the target was indeed the Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) group in Balakot, why didn't the Pakistani military taken action by themselves? there are many questions that need to be answered.
This is EXTREMELY serious. This is by far the MOST serious military event in recent years.
I hope this incident does not diminished the original air strikes by IAF also. Were the targets legitimate and was it done to prevent some inevitable terror attacks on India etc?
Since IAF was the initial aggressor they also have to prove that all necessary measures have either been exhausted or ignored by Pakistan before embarking on such a critical mission.
If the target was indeed the Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) group in Balakot, why didn't the Pakistani military taken action by themselves? there are many questions that need to be answered.
Balakot is the area where both Pak and USA conducted rescue operations after earth quake in Pakistan for extended period of time and US special force trainer were station not too far from the place so during their stay in Pakistan so it was just a propaganda by India
plawolf
Lieutenant General
I feel getting into the politics of why India decided to launch a military operation will just lead to endless claims, counter claims and ultimately a flame war.
That is why I wanted to focus this thread on the factual element of the actual engagement to try and steer clear of that.
Equation
Lieutenant General
Quite possibly is that the dead Indian soldiers and pilots inside that crash Mi17 are a part of the rescue down pilot team. When that captured Indian successfully ejected from his plane and gave his HQ his last coordinates they must've send out the pilot rescue team. OR that Mi17 so happens to be on recon mission that so happens to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Equation
Lieutenant General
Simple...politics my friend. This could only make Modi and his BJP party more popular prior to the upcoming election.
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