Lot's of talk about how PAF used Mirage to "lure" the IAF fighters into Pakistani territory. If this is true, how did the IAF pilots decide to give chase and follow them in? On Mig-21 as well. Was it escorted by something more capable? Did their radars and instruments/ AEW assets indicate to them that the coast is clear to go in quickly and take out the offending mirage that dropped the air to ground ordinance? Were JF-17s well hidden nearby in this alleged Pakistani plan? If so was it using geography (unlikely to hide from AEW) or does JF-17 come with some electronic cloaking or PAF have some very capable jammers? Then again, jamming and hiding from a Mig-21 isn't difficult these days.
2019 India-Pakistani border clash
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nope first was Iranian drone at Pak-Iran border around one or two years back
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Guys get to the point
It’s not the aircraft but the pilot inside
We are talking about PAF here one of the most highly decorated Air Force
Who stunned American F15 eagles in their basic F6 in 1983 during US-Pak exercise
The track record speaks for itself ask Israelis about Sattar Alvi
Second to the none
It’s not the aircraft but the pilot inside
We are talking about PAF here one of the most highly decorated Air Force
Who stunned American F15 eagles in their basic F6 in 1983 during US-Pak exercise
The track record speaks for itself ask Israelis about Sattar Alvi
Second to the none
plawolf
Lieutenant General
It would be very interesting to get a look of a map of the Mig21 base, PAF strike location and crash location.
If they are all pretty close, then that to point to this being a very well planned and executed ambush by the PAF.
The Mirages strike at targets closest to the Mig21 base, maybe even with the explosions being audible/visible to the base itself.
The Mirages then turned tail, and JF17s splashed the Mig21s as they scrambled and were giving chase.
If the three locations were not close, then that raises far more serious questions about just what the hell the IAF was thinking in choosing to send Mig21s out against F16s and JF17s.
If they are all pretty close, then that to point to this being a very well planned and executed ambush by the PAF.
The Mirages strike at targets closest to the Mig21 base, maybe even with the explosions being audible/visible to the base itself.
The Mirages then turned tail, and JF17s splashed the Mig21s as they scrambled and were giving chase.
If the three locations were not close, then that raises far more serious questions about just what the hell the IAF was thinking in choosing to send Mig21s out against F16s and JF17s.
Using Mig-21s, if not out of total forced convenience shows a few possibilities:
1. IAF is arrogant and felt confident sending Mig-21 would be enough to deal with whatever resistance PAF can field. This is unlikely because they can't truly be that incompetent.
2. IAF wanted a slow escalation to using the front line models. Starting with Mig-21 sets the scene for this or future developments. We'll see more from them.
3. Front line fighters are mostly positioned closer to China and this whole thing was far more a response from IAF than a planned engagement.
4. Front line fighters have low serviceability and nearby ones are not prepared or ready.
5. IAF may have felt risking their low inventory of front line fighters in a skirmish is too risky. Losing them will tarnish their reputation internationally and will ruin the careers of many BJP politicians.
6. They did use other fighters and they are back in hangars. What was shot down was an outdated fighter that has no place in modern warfare.
1. IAF is arrogant and felt confident sending Mig-21 would be enough to deal with whatever resistance PAF can field. This is unlikely because they can't truly be that incompetent.
2. IAF wanted a slow escalation to using the front line models. Starting with Mig-21 sets the scene for this or future developments. We'll see more from them.
3. Front line fighters are mostly positioned closer to China and this whole thing was far more a response from IAF than a planned engagement.
4. Front line fighters have low serviceability and nearby ones are not prepared or ready.
5. IAF may have felt risking their low inventory of front line fighters in a skirmish is too risky. Losing them will tarnish their reputation internationally and will ruin the careers of many BJP politicians.
6. They did use other fighters and they are back in hangars. What was shot down was an outdated fighter that has no place in modern warfare.
First kill against manned fighter then.
According to reports: 2 Indian Airforce jets shot down in air combat inside Pakistan airspace. One shot down fighter has come down in Pakistan territory (confirmed by pictures and videos) and the other one has come down inside Indian held Kashmir (confirmed from pics and news reports from Kashmir). Initial reports from Pakistan claimed 1 pilot captured, 1 killed, and a manhunt going on to find 2 others that landed in Pakistani territory. Initial Indian reports said no Indian aircraft shot down, later reports saying 2 IAF pilots have been killed when a fighter crashed in Indian held Kashmir due to a "malfunction" in their aircraft. Indians also saying a helicopter has also 'crashed' due to malfunction leading to death of 4 servicemen.
Now Pakistani reports are claiming either 2 or 3 Indian Airforce pilots have been captured alive. Indians have acknowledged the pilot seen in videos released by Pakistan was shot down over Pakistan.
Reports from Pakistan suggesting either 1x Su-30MKI and 1x Mig-21 or 1xMig-29 and 1xMig-21 have been shot down. At least one of the kills (possibly both) are by JF-17s.
Now Pakistani reports are claiming either 2 or 3 Indian Airforce pilots have been captured alive. Indians have acknowledged the pilot seen in videos released by Pakistan was shot down over Pakistan.
Reports from Pakistan suggesting either 1x Su-30MKI and 1x Mig-21 or 1xMig-29 and 1xMig-21 have been shot down. At least one of the kills (possibly both) are by JF-17s.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
I just had a quick look, and the main airport at Srinagar (Sheikh Ul-Alam) is around 90km from the boarder, which is quite close in terms of fighter jets.
It would make sense if the IAF does not want to forward base it’s best fighters like the MKI there, as doing so would carry the significant risk of those jets getting destroyed on the ground in a surprise first attack.
But as this shootdown demonstrates, stationing planes like Mig21s there also carries its own set of risks.
Hyperwarp
Captain
Those MiG-21 are of the 'BISON' variants (). They are very heavily upgraded and capable of carrying R-73 and R-77. They can even be fitted with an Israeli jammer if needed.
So the IAF didn't detect the JF-17? Or at least they couldn't tell them apart from the Mirages? Did some EW system play a role here?
Credit should go to the PAF. They do their best with what they have.
India claims to have downed an F-16 but no wreckage shown.
So the IAF didn't detect the JF-17? Or at least they couldn't tell them apart from the Mirages? Did some EW system play a role here?
Credit should go to the PAF. They do their best with what they have.
India claims to have downed an F-16 but no wreckage shown.
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