British Military Pictures Thread

[bd popeye]

Obi Wan sez;

Note the combined funnels and masts, flyco extending over the deck for maximum visibility, and the extended 'Alaskan Highway' outboard of the bridge to enable Aircraft movements without interfering with flying ops.

Good design. Very good. The only thing I do not like, because I actually worked on the flight deck, is the placement of the aircraft lift(elevator) just foward of the flyco(island). It would intefere with the movement (re-spoting) of aircraft after recovery. This is the problem we had on the Hancock which had a lift between the catapults... Unless of course the ship was rearming and refueling as soon as the recovered aircraft landed. Just my opinion.

Great pictures Obi Wan. Just great!

Here is an 1957 picture of the Hancock with the lift down so you can see it's placement.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/i...000/h97539.jpg

[Obi Wan Russell]

Apparently Commanding officers of several Essex class CVs during WW2 liked the deck edge lift so much they requested replacing the forward lift with one also. This was eventually done to the Midway class ships during the 60s and I assumed the only reason it wasn't done on the rebuilt Essex class was to save money.They had a lot of ships to refit and a finite budget, even for the USN. I agree about the placing of the forward lift on CVA-01, but it seems this layout was chosen because the ships were expecting to operate in the far north atlantic and a forward deck edge lift was thought to be liable to structural damage in heavy seas. At the time only two British ships had been fitted with deck edge lifts (Hermes and Ark Royal) and one had since been removed. Opinion on them was probably divided in the design office, later ships may have had their designs altered to replace the forward lift with a deck edge unit.

The new CVFs have two deck edge lifts to starboard, the forward one is placed amidships to avoid sea damage, while the Invincibles couldn't be designed with them for the simple reason that when they were designed no one was prepared to admit they were carriers! They were ordered as 'Through Deck Cruisers' and side lifts would have been a bit of a giveaway...
I noticed the new CVN-21 design only has three elevators, perhaps a reasessment of their actual use has taken place and only three are needed, releasing more deck space for parking. Also the Island has moved even further back than on the Nimitz, any further and they'll have to tow it behind the carrier!

[bd popeye]

Obi Wan sez;

I noticed the new CVN-21 design only has three elevators, perhaps a reasessment of their actual use has taken place and only three are needed, releasing more deck space for parking. Also the Island has moved even further back than on the Nimitz, any further and they'll have to tow it behind the carrier!

You assesment of the CVN-21 design is correct Jedi master..You indeed are powerful as Yoda has said....

The reason for three elevators on CVN-21 insted of four is the simple fact that the elevator on a Nimitz class located behind the island is sledom used at sea. In fact it's only use is as a recieving platform during underway replenishments. Otherwise it stays at flight deck level and is used to store ground suppourt equipment while underway.

By the way CVN-21 is the name of the program. CVN-78 will be the first hull number. Unfortunatly the name of that ship maybe Gerald R. Ford if approved by congress...jeez..he was a clumsly oaf as a president ..

[Obi Wan Russell]

Yes I know about the 21/78 confusion, but my only knowledge of President Ford's performance in the job comes from a tape of Chevy Chase on Saturday Night Live from the mid 70s. Not very inspiring. Especially as the ship will be the nameship of the first new class of CVNs for nearly forty years. Jeff Head and I concluded the best name for her would be Enterprise, as she will be a replacement for that ship (probably, hard to tell what will get the chop next. Some sources a few years ago were claiming the JFK would last until 2018). But if the USN is going to stick with Presidents, surely they can find one with a more distinguished track record. You haven't gone through all the good ones yet I hope? If there wasn't already a USS Roosevelt in the fleet I would suggest reviving the name FDR, but two Roosevelts could be confusing...

[Finn McCool]

How bout the popeye?

[Obi Wan Russell]

Originally Posted by Finn McCool

How bout the popeye?

Gets my vote! What could be more American? It's a name that is known and respected worldwide and will strike fear into the enemies of freedom everywhere! USS Popeye CVN-78 it is then!

[Obi Wan Russell]

Here's some other ships of the fleet, past, present and future;

Cruisers! HMS Belfast, now preserved on the River Thames in London and wearing her WW2 camouflage scheme was the first ship of the Allied fleet to open fire on D-Day, her half sister HMS Sheffield famous for having been attacked in error by Swordfish during the hunt for the Bismarck survived until 1967 when she was scrapped, and HMS Blake the last operational British cruiser decommissioned in 1980.Strange to think that the politicians wanted to replace the strike carrier fleet with ships similar to the Blake, Cruisers with a large Helicopter hangar aft and medium range SAMs forward. Luckily the RN managed to evolve the design into the Invincible class without telling the government!

Type 42 Destroyers; HMS Birmingham, HMS Cardiff, HMS Edinburgh, HMS Manchester, and HMS Nottingham. The type 42s were heavily criticised after the Falklands War for deficienies in their radar fit and lack of close range AA armament, but these have been rectified now and the ships of the class are potent AAW Destroyers, and will be a bargain to any nation that buys them second hand in the next few years.

The Type 45 Destroyers; We need 12, we've been promised 8 and they've ordered 6. Let's hope sanity prevails at the MOD (but don't hold your breath).

Some more shots of the flat tops; HMS Eagle the largest warship in the Royal Navy to date, HMS Centaur the smallest strike carrier of the 60s, and Invincible, Illustrious and Ark Royal, the ships that save the Fleet Air Arm from extinction. Incidentally, when Eagle was decommissioned in 1972, not only was she the largest ship ever to have served in the RN (her displacement, 54,100tons full load was slightly larger than her sister Ark Royal, 53,060tons) she also had the largest missile battery (6x GWS22 quad Seacat SAM launchers) and the heaviest gun battery (8x 4.5inch guns in four twin turrets) as well as the largest complement (2750 officers and seamen, Ark had 2637 as she was unarmed post 1970) of any ship in the RN! In contrast, HMS Centaur displaced 22,000tons, was armed with 8x 40mm guns in four twin mounts, no missiles and a complement of 1402.
The modern day Invincible class displace 20,000tons are armed with three CIWS (GOALKEEPER 30mm in INvincible and Illustrious and PHALANX 20mm in Ark Royal) and have a complement of 685 +386 air group.

[bd popeye]

Finn & Obi..you flater me...

USS Popeye CVN-78..jeez..beats Gerald Ford any day..

Actually I agree the name should be Enterprise simply because the "Big E' will be decomissioned when CVN-78 comes into service. America or Lexington would be good also.

Roosevelt would be confusing since there is an USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71)already.

[Obi Wan Russell]

Here's a shot that should bring back a few memories for you Popeye, F-8 Crusader about to be catapulted off the late lamented USS Oriskany. I think the USN should keep a name like Enterprise at the forefront of the Fleet, and revive names like Lexington and Hornet and other Battle honoured names rather than just using Presidents. Sooner or later 'Slick Willy' and his successor, the shaved chimp from Texas will get a CVN named after them too!
Of course, having two USS Roosevelts in the fleet could be a cunning ploy to fox the enemy...
Carrying on the tradition of Famous names in a navy is well established here, and that's why I want CVF-02 to be named Ark Royal instead of Prince of Wales (a name put forward by the pro royalist faction, the previous ship of that name was an 'unlucky' ship and I don't think it would be appropriate to name one of the two largest ships in the RN after either the earlier vessel or the current holder of the title) as she will be the replacement for the current bearer of the name.
Just to clarify, in Britain we are generally neither pro nor anti Royalist, we are usually indifferent to them in a polite kind of way. The Queen is everyones favourite Granny, but her family... well they're good for the tourist trade so we tolerate them. Most people think the crown will bypass Charles and go to William (making him William V), or at least we hope it will.
I've stated elsewhere on this forum that I don't think CVF-01 should be named Queen Elizabeth either, as it makes the ship sound like a cruise liner! The RN has plenty of 'in your face' names it could draw upon, and your biggest and most powerful warship should have a name that strikes fear into the enemy, not make them think about a cruise in the caribbean! Similarly, USS Gerry Ford is a name that scares no one, certainly not in the same way Nimitz, Eisenhower, John F Kennedy, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington etc do. These names have the weight of history behind them, people who didn't back down from a fight and had a just and fair reputation. Gerald Ford got the job after his boss got caught out and became president by default. He didn't even win an election in his own right, so why not USS Walter Mondale while we're at it? Congressmen. Jeez, where do you find these guys? Defence is too important to be left to politicians.

[bd popeye]

That is an old picture Obi Wan. The flight deck crewmen don't have on flotation gear or hard helmets...I had to stand between the catapults on the Hancock. My job was to count the ordanance being launched off the ship. and what aircraft it was on. I did the same when I was on the USS Midway but there I only counted missiles.

Sooner or later 'Slick Willy' and his successor, the shaved chimp from Texas will get a CVN named after them too!

Now that's funny....

USS Gerry Ford is a name that scares no one, certainly not in the same way Nimitz, Eisenhower, John F Kennedy, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington etc do. These names have the weight of history behind them, people who didn't back down from a fight and had a just and fair reputation. Gerald Ford got the job after his boss got caught out and became president by default. He didn't even win an election in his own right, so why not USS Walter Mondale while we're at it? Congressmen. Jeez, where do you find these guys? Defence is too important to be left to politicians.

I agree 100%..When I was a young sailor I was assigned to the USS John F Kennedy(CVA-67) as my first ship. I was very proud to have that name on the shoulder patch of my dress blues. For those of you that don't know, not only was JFK a president. He won the Navy Cross in WWII. Read this account.

http://www.orwelltoday.com/jfkpt109.shtml

He should of won the Medal of Honor....

[Obi Wan Russell]

Here's a slight twist on the subject of British Military, 'MADE IN BRITAIN' and succesfully adopted by others. Our politicians are rubbish, but our designs are world beaters (no harm in a bit of flag waving!)


Flat tops; ARA Idependencia and ARA Veinticinco de Mayo, BNS Minas Gerais, HMCS Magnificent and HMCS Bonaventure,
HMAS Sydney and HMAS Melbourne, INS Vikrant and INS Viraat. Also such British inventions as the Steam Catapult, the Angled Deck, the Deck Approach Landing sight, the Ski-Jump Ramp, the Aircraft Carrier itself!

The Harrier; Indian navy Sea Harrier FRS51, NASA AV-8A, USMC AV-8Cs and Spanish/ Royal Thai Navy EAV-8As

Some more shots of Spanish Navy Harriers, all built in Britain.

The Agusta Westland EH-101 Merlin, rapidly becoming one of the world's favourite helicopters, Even the US President is buying them for his personal transport! Also an artists impression of the proposed AEW variant with stub wings for extended range.

[bd popeye]

Nice pictures once again Obi Wan. You are indeed wise as the Jedi Master Yoda has said.

How old is that picture of the Enterprise? 70's or 80's? Since that pic the island was redesigned. And I see A-7's mixed with Tomcats on the flight deck.

[Obi Wan Russell]

The Melbourne pic with the Enterprise in the background is mid 70's by my guess as Melbourne is in her mid 70's configuration with A-4Gs on deck and American style deck markings. Enterprise had her 'facelift' in 79-81 and Melbourne was decommissioned in 1982, so it would have been before that.

[Obi Wan Russell]

A few shots of a unique ship in the RN, the sole Type 82 destroyer HMS Bristol. Intended as the lead ship of a class of up to eight carrier escorts to accompany the cancelled CVA-01, only Bristol was built as trials ship for the GWS 30 Sea Dart SAM and the IKARA ASW missile. She served in the Falklands and has spent the last decade as a training ship moored off Whale Island in Portsmouth.

The Hawker Hunter. Last of the British Gunfighters. Seat of the pants flying and no radar, no fly by wire, no RIO, and no missiles. Perfect!

[Kampfwagen]

Originally Posted by Obi Wan Russell

Oh, and Kampfwagen, as to where we get these pictures, all I can say is Seek and ye shall find. Keep your pics coming, all are welcome here. But please, THUMBNAILS! So the pages don't take all day to load!

Argh, the system of that is so irritatingly bonkers for me. I can't get it to work. I realize it is a terrible inconvience, but I will try this time anyway, with an 'experemental' picture.



Thar we go. That should work.