UK Military News Thread

[FuManChu]

U.K., BAE Agree on Nuclear Submarine Costs

Negotiations over the price of two nuclear submarines being constructed for the U.K. Royal Navy by BAE Systems could be coming to a close. In its response to a Parliamentary Defence Committee investigation into major procurement programs, Ministry of Defence officials revealed on Feb. 27 that government negotiators and BAE Submarine Solutions had agreed on a deal, but that it still required endorsement by the hierarchy of the two sides.
Neither the government nor BAE would comment on the status of the pricing plan.

In December, the Defence Committee report expressed surprise that no price had been settled upon, particularly because that meant the financial liability to the MoD on building the boats was open-ended. The deal relates to Boats 2 and 3 now being assembled at BAE’s nuclear submarine yard at Barrow-in-Furness. If the prices are approved, a new order for the fourth of the Astute-class boats is expected to rapidly follow. The National Audit Office, a government watchdog, reported in November the forecast cost of the first batch of three vessels was 3.6 billion pounds ($7.1 billion).

BAE and the MoD have found themselves in the unusual position of negotiating the deal for Boats 2 and 3 even though construction is well advanced, thanks to severe technical difficulties that became apparent on the Astute program around 2002. The 1997 contract to build three nuclear submarines was renegotiated with the understanding that the prices of the first two subs would only be decided after the first of class had reached sufficient maturity to understand the costs.

HMS Ambush, Boat 2, is due to be launched in February 2009 and the third boat, HMS Artful, is scheduled for launch in August 2010. The first of class, HMS Astute, is scheduled for launch June 8. Despite last-minute hiccups on the reactor commissioning, Boat 1 project director Stuart Godden was quoted in the company’s Wavelength in-house magazine as saying the program was still achievable. A Submarine Solutions spokesman said the company was confident it would meet the launch date.

The in-service date for the first of up to eight submarines to replace the current Trafalgar and Swiftsure classes of submarines is scheduled for late 2009 — some four years late. But BAE’s Barrow yard has had something of a renaissance since its earlier problems with Astute. Having once threatened to sell the nuclear submarine business, BAE is now a dominant player in government-backed talks to consolidate the nuclear submarine industry.
One option BAE is looking at is to purchase the DML maintenance and nuclear refueling business at Devonport in association with U.S. private equity investor Carlyle Group. The government could order a further four Tomahawk missile-equipped nuclear submarines, followed by a new class of ballistic missile boats, providing work at Britain’s only nuclear shipbuilding yard until 2020 and beyond.

The first order is likely to be in the shape of a fourth Astute-class boat. Long-lead items have already been ordered and Submarine Solutions reported it has begun procuring combat system equipment in the shape of a towed array handling system. The spokesman said the company had completed preparations for manufacture of Boat 4 on Feb. 8.

Speaking to the Defence Committee late last year, David Gould, Defence Procurement Agency deputy chief, said he expected to make a decision about Boat 4 just after they had agreed on a price for the two earlier boats. In its response to the Defence Committee, the MoD said the approval to build Boat 4 was being sought on the basis of meeting a construction drumbeat that required a new submarine order every 22 months to ensure vital skills and capabilities were not lost to BAE and its supply chain.

However, Britain’s defense budget is under severe strain. A group of leading ex-military, industry and MoD officials in a report for the Royal United Services Institute here recently estimated the defense equipment plan over the next 10 years could be underfunded by as much as 15 billion pounds. One of the solutions should be to review the Astute program, they said, arguing that the only reason Britain needed more than three or four nuclear-powered attack boats was to retain onshore industrial expertise.

With affordability being a critical issue for the British, BAE and its suppliers have been under orders from the MoD to slash the cost of future nuclear boat construction. The MoD in its response to the Defence Committee admitted the Astute program faced significant financial challenges and work was progressing to drive out costs. Studies on Boat 4 had “indicated the potential for design simplification and efforts are focused on achieving the mean to deliver the associated costings,” it said. No figures are available to back that up, but last year the MoD challenged industry to slash acquisition costs on Boat 4 by 30 percent. By the sixth submarine, they wanted a 45 percent reduction. Wavelength said BAE had identified 40 initiatives that will save more than 60 million pounds on the combat system alone compared with Boat 3.

[FuManChu]

British Skynet satellite launched

The British military's Skynet 5A satellite has been launched into space from Kourou in French Guiana. The spacecraft is part of a £3.2bn system that will deliver secure, high-bandwidth communications for UK and allied forces. Sunday's lift-off came 24 hours after a first attempt was thwarted by a technical glitch in ground equipment.

Skynet rode atop an Ariane 5-ECA rocket, which left the ground at 1903 local time (2203 GMT).

"It was an incredibly nerve-racking but also an amazing experience to participate in the countdown and launch of an Ariane 5," said Patrick Wood, who has led the development of the Skynet spacecraft for manufacturer EADS Astrium. "We've already received telemetry from it. In fact, we had a ground station see it just 10 minutes after separation. We've even sent commands to Skynet. It's behaving itself perfectly," he told BBC News shortly after the launch.

The British spacecraft is the first in what will eventually be a three-satellite constellation designed to allow the Army, Royal Navy and RAF to pass much more data, faster between command centres.

"Skynet's going to provide five times the capacity that the previous system provided, and allow the military to do things they just haven't been able to do in the past," Mr Woods explained.

There's more to read on the link itself.

[Finn McCool]

Originally Posted by FuManChu

British Skynet satellite launched



There's more to read on the link itself.

Hehehe Skynet. That's the name of the evil AI network in the Terminantor movies that launches all of the worlds nukes.

[FuManChu]

Originally Posted by Finn McCool

Hehehe Skynet. That's the name of the evil AI network in the Terminantor movies that launches all of the worlds nukes.

Geez, like I haven't heard that one before....

Finn, that is so cheesy I can't believe you actually said it!

[Finn McCool]

Originally Posted by FuManChu

Geez, like I haven't heard that one before....

Finn, that is so cheesy I can't believe you actually said it!

Hey I'm just saying...maybe they should take a second look at the software.

[FuManChu]

Navy deal launches system of incentives

The Treasury and the Ministry of Defence (MoD) have agreed a £3.9 billion budget to build two Royal Navy aircraft carriers, The Times has learnt. An announcement is expected before Easter after long talks between the consortium that will build the carriers — led by BAE Systems and Thales UK — and the Government.

The budget includes incentives to lower the price, with the shipbuilders taking a share of any cost reductions. This is seen as a key change in defence procurement and is likely to set the standard in future. Under terms of the contract, the top price for the two ships will be £3.9 billion and it is hoped that savings will eventually cut that to £3.6 billion.

A further incentive programme will encourage the shipbuilders to share costs with France, which is also preparing to build a carrier. This could save a further £300 million.

Apart from BAE Systems, the consortium includes VT Group and Babcock. Thales UK is responsible for design. The Future Carrier Alliance, as the consortium is known, is an attempt by the MoD to pool industrial talent and get away from the procurement culture of cost overruns and production delays.

Although Lord Drayson, the Defence Procurement Minister, is expected to confirm the decision to go ahead with the carriers by Easter, a formal contract is unlikely to be signed before the autumn. The ships will be called HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales and will form the backbone of the Royal Navy for 30 years. They are due to enter service in 2012 and 2015.

This is on the back of another report that BAE and VT have agreed to merge their assets to form the "ShipCo" joint enterprise.

[bd popeye]

Explosion on Royal Navy sub, HMS Tireless, kills two sailors

My condolences to the families of those lost and the RN.

http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=28464

Royal Navy Submarine Incident Kills Two During Ice Exercise
Story Number: NNS070321-15
Release Date: 3/21/2007 5:40:00 PM

From Commander, Submarine Force Public Affairs

NORFOLK, Va. (NNS) -- The Royal Navy submarine HMS Tireless, participating in the Joint U.S. Navy/Royal Navy Ice Exercise 2007 (ICEX-2007) in the Arctic Ocean, experienced an explosion of a self contained oxygen generation candle that killed two crew members and injured one.

The explosion occurred at approximately 12:20 a.m. (EDT) March 21.

The injured member of the crew has been transported by an Alaska Air National Guard C-130 to Anchorage for treatment.

“I am deeply saddened at the loss of the crewmembers from the Tireless,” said Vice Adm. Jay Donnelly, Commander, Submarine Force. “Submariners are brothers at sea and we all feel the loss as if it were our own. We stand by to continue to assist in any way we can.”

ICEX-2007 and Royal Navy officials have confirmed that the Tireless is safe and operational and that a full assessment is being conducted.

Tireless is commanded by Cdr. Iain Breckenridge of the Royal Navy. It is home ported in Plymouth, Devon, and has been operating with the USS Alexandria (SSN 757), in joint testing on submarine operability and tactical development in Arctic waters.

The U.S. Navy and Royal Navy Arctic cooperation represents an excellent example of the shared vision and resources the two navies enjoy. Since 1986, every Arctic tactical exercise has involved both U.S. Navy and Royal Navy submarines.

The U.S. submarine force conducts exercises in waters around the globe, including the Arctic, in order to guarantee assured access to any ocean in the world. The
submarine force continues to use the Arctic Ocean as an alternate route for shifting submarines between the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. U.S. submarines must continue to train in the Arctic environment to refine and validate procedures and required equipment in support of operational safety.

[FuManChu]

Originally Posted by bd popeye

My condolences to the families of those lost and the RN.

I'm sure they will appreciate it. Thanks for your thoughts, Popeye. I know my prayers are with them.

Reminds you of that horrible episode with the US sub, doesn't it?

[bd popeye]

Originally Posted by FuManChu

I'm sure they will appreciate it. Thanks for your thoughts, Popeye. I know my prayers are with them.

Reminds you of that horrible episode with the US sub, doesn't it?

Thanks Fu..I was thinking the exact same thing. Ironic...

[BLUEJACKET]

Oxygen device sparked sub blast

Key role of UK's underwater hunters

The permanent ice pack at the North Pole has retreated 100 miles north in recent years and can thin in the summer to as little as 6ft. ..
Ice on the Arctic has diminished by 40% in the past 20 years, according to research. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3640879.stm

That's another confirmation of what I said on carriers tread- as the ice melts, new routes could be used betw. Atlantic & Pacific oceans!

[bd popeye]

15 RN sailors taken at gunpoint by Iran

This is the second incident of this type since Gulf War II began.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6484279.stm

UK sailors captured at gunpoint

The sailors and marines are from HMS Cornwall.

Fifteen British Navy personnel have been captured at gunpoint by Iranian forces, the Ministry of Defence says. The men were seized at 1030 local time when they boarded a boat in the Gulf, off the coast of Iraq, which they suspected was smuggling cars.

The Royal Navy said the men, who were on a routine patrol in Iraqi waters, were understood to be unharmed.

The Foreign Office has demanded the immediate and safe return of the men, who are based on HMS Cornwall.

That vessel's commander, Commodore Nick Lambert, said he was hoping there had been a "simple mistake" over territorial waters.

"There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they [British personnel] were in Iraqi territorial waters. Equally, the Iranians may claim they were in Iranian waters.

"I hope we find this is a simple misunderstanding at the tactical level."

Helicopters had reported seeing two British boats being moved to Iranian bases and there had been no evidence of fighting, he added.

He said that despite scant communication, the 15 people were understood to be safe and had reacted in an "extremely professional way, in line with the rules of engagement".

"I look forward to seeing them on their return and congratulating them."

He said naval authorities were doing everything possible to ensure their safe return.

The Ministry of Defence said: "The group boarding party had completed a successful inspection of a merchant ship when they and their two boats were surrounded and escorted by Iranian vessels into Iranian territorial waters.

"We are urgently pursuing this matter with the Iranian authorities at the highest level.

"The British government is demanding the immediate and safe return of our people and equipment."

Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett has summoned the Iranian ambassador in London to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, in an attempt to get the men released as quickly as possible.

In a statement, leader of the Liberal Democrats, Sir Menzies Campbell, also called for their immediate release.

"Whatever the rights and wrongs of military action, British forces in Iraq are now there with the authority of a UN security council resolution... and the Iranian government should be left in no doubt of the serious implications of their action," he said.

FAMILY INFORMATION LINE
(UK) 0845 7800 900

The incident comes as British Army Colonel Justin Masherevski, who is based in Iraq, says most of the violence against UK forces in Basra is being engineered by Iranian elements.

Col Masherevski said Iran was providing "sophisticated weaponry" to insurgents and "Iranian agents" were paying local men to attack British troops.

In 2004, Iran detained eight British servicemen for three days after they allegedly strayed over the maritime border.

The UK claimed the men were "forcibly escorted" into Iranian territorial waters.

While they were being held, the men were paraded blindfold and made to apologise on Iranian TV before their release was agreed.

The BBC's diplomatic correspondent James Robbins said the difference this time, and a cause of concern, is that the present Iranian government under President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was much more hardline.

"The political climate is worse with Britain among those confronting Iran over its controversial nuclear programme," he added.

[FuManChu]

Originally Posted by bd popeye

This is the second incident of this type since Gulf War II began.

I hope this was a mistake, but I have a feeling it was done deliberately given the new round of sanctions being proposed. It's almost as if the Iranians are trying to provoke military action.

[bd popeye]

Originally Posted by FuManChu

I hope this was a mistake, but I have a feeling it was done deliberately given the new round of sanctions being proposed. It's almost as if the Iranians are trying to provoke military action.

Could be Fu. Could be.. For those of you that do not know these boarding parties leave their ships usally in RHIB (Rigid hull inflatable boat) similar to the USN. I have to wonder how far the RN sailors ship, HMS Cornwall, was from the seizure? It must have been a distance far enough away that the Iranians felt comfortable in their actions.

You know the US conducts these sort of operations daily for years in the Gulf. Golly gee...I wonder why Iran has avoided confrontation with the USN?? Are the "rules of ingagement" the same for all countries or similar?

[FuManChu]

Originally Posted by bd popeye

I have to wonder how far the RN sailors ship, HMS Cornwall, was from the seizure? It must have been a distance far enough away that the Iranians felt comfortable in their actions.

It was some distance away - the only support in the immediate area was a helicopter (even then I'm surprised it didn't warn the sailors and marines).

You know the US conducts these sort of operations daily for years in the Gulf. Golly gee...I wonder why Iran has avoided confrontation with the USN??

Maybe the USN provides more close-in support during these sorts of checks. But certainly if these lads aren't returned soon the RN will take a more aggressive posture.

[bd popeye]

Maybe the USN provides more close-in support during these sorts of checks. But certainly if these lads aren't returned soon the RN will take a more aggressive posture.

Yes the USN does stay closer to it's RHIB when deployed. Let's hope the RN changes it's tactics in this situation to prevent future seziures.

I feel that Iran does not want any real confrontation with the USN at this time. I feel they wish only to continue the "war of words."