UK Military News Thread

[FuManChu]

Read the full article here

BAE SYSTEMS, Europe’s largest defence company, has won a major new contract worth £2.5bn (E3.7bn, $4.6bn) to upgrade Saudi Arabia’s ageing fleet of Tornado fighter planes.

The deal comes just three weeks after the British government announced the sale of 72 Eurofighter Typhoons to Saudi Arabia in a deal worth an initial £10bn.

The Saudis are splashing out a lot recently!

[FuManChu]

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/...883786,00.html

Senior military officers have been pressing the government to withdraw British troops from Iraq and concentrate on what they now regard as a more worthwhile and winnable battleground in Afghanistan.

They believe there is a limit to what British soldiers can achieve in southern Iraq and that it is time the Iraqis took responsibility for their own security, defence sources say. Pressure from military chiefs for an early and significant cut in the 7,500 British troops in Iraq is also motivated by extreme pressure being placed on soldiers and those responsible for training them.

I think that we should stay while we are needed, but if the Iraqis want to take over then I think we should focus on Afghanistan too - their military needs more support than the Iraqis do.

[Shingy]

I think we botched this up bad, we have been told that we are far too thinly spread out at this time, this could be a good thing, although i personally believe since we screwed up their country we should finish the job, i don't think this will happen though, they have too much precious oil for us to leave anyways.

[FuManChu]

Blair promises 'more for troops'

British forces in Afghanistan will be provided with whatever resources they need, the prime minister has said. Addressing military personnel on the fifth anniversary of operations in the country, Tony Blair pledged "every support and every protection".

He said this included providing more armoured vehicles and more helicopters.

So what would you guys ask for?

[Obi Wan Russell]

The Two CVFs to be ordered immediately of course. We'll still be in Iraq and Afganistan by the time they're ready...

Also, 30+ Merlin HC4 troop transport helos to replace the Sea King HC4s of the RNs Commando Helicopter Force as they are starting to wear out through heavy use;
At least 12 more Chinooks with folding rotors to supplement the Merlins;
Another six Type 45s to restore the numbers originally needed;
Another five C-17 Globemasters for the RAF;
Restoration of the gun to all RAF Typhoons;
G-36 Assault Rifles to replace the SA-80;
Enough Body Armour for ALL ground forces;
Enough Ammo for all ground forces;
And an admission that Defence cuts in wartime are REALLY STUPID and will stop immediately.

[FuManChu]

Obi Wan, I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. Although a future budgetary increase is possible, what Blair was talking about were immediate reinforcements to our troops on the ground, e.g. extra helicopters being deployed.

Although I would agree with you about the ships. We might be lucky and see another two Type-45s in the near future, then again we might have to wait. As to CVF, we should be seeing movement on this issue hopefully by the end of the month. Main gate should be end of this year, or no later than the start of 2007.

[bd popeye]

HMS Ark Royal returns to sea after refit

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...turnsToSea.htm

HMS Ark Royal returns to sea
3 Oct 06
After a nine month refit period, the Royal Navy's aircraft carrier HMS Ark Royal has returned to the North Sea to begin full sea trials.

On Friday 29 September 2006, as she slipped her moorings at Rosyth and glided out into the Firth of Forth, it was the first time in nearly two and half years that Ark Royal had sailed under her own steam.

Understandably, an air of expectation buzzed around the ship with a crowd of well wishers gathering to see her on her way, one step nearer to returning to service.

The event marks a significant milestone in the ship's return to operational service. She will now spend the next three weeks undertaking sea trials which will allow her to undertake initial tests of all her systems.

Ark Royal's company will also be put through their paces, carrying out a number of training exercises. The trials programme will include the testing and proving of major systems such as the propulsion, sensors and weapons.

Ark Royal's Commanding Officer, Captain Mike Mansergh, said:

"It will be my own first time at sea in Ark Royal. It will be an immensely proud and exciting time for all of us onboard.

"To have one ship that can undertake a number of roles gives the Royal Navy an extremely flexible option and one, of course, which can protect the UK’s interests all over the world and, hopefully, make it a safer place."

After the sea trials are complete, HMS Ark Royal will start a period of intensive sea training which culminates in her assuming the Navy's Landing Platform Helicopter role. After that, she will be ready to respond to world events at 24 hours notice as a joint defence asset.

The £19 million refit period has significantly enhanced the carrier’s versatility and will see her emerge in a Commando Carrier role whilst maintaining a Strike Capability. The project was on time and on budget, reflecting an effective approach to refitting the ship.

A number of upgrades have been added, including a Mizzen Mast for enhanced communications. An upgraded satellite communications system known as SCOT 5 has also been added which will ensure that the increasingly demanding information requirements for Strike Operations can be managed.

The current HMS Ark Royal is the fifth vessel to bear the distinguished name. It is normally the flagship of the fleet, but with the refit underway, that duty has been handed over to HMS Illustrious

[Obi Wan Russell]

Originally Posted by FuManChu

Obi Wan, I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. Although a future budgetary increase is possible, what Blair was talking about were immediate reinforcements to our troops on the ground, e.g. extra helicopters being deployed.

Although I would agree with you about the ships. We might be lucky and see another two Type-45s in the near future, then again we might have to wait. As to CVF, we should be seeing movement on this issue hopefully by the end of the month. Main gate should be end of this year, or no later than the start of 2007.

Well the question was what do you want to see, and I'm not letting the Government off the hook that easily...

I've posted some Post-Refit photos of the Ark Royal in the British Military pic thread, clearly showing her new third mast.

[FuManChu]

Carrier project to go for final approval this month

The £3-billion Future Aircraft Carrier project will be given to the Ministry of Defence for final approval a week on Thursday, The Times has learnt. The two new carriers, which are expected to enter service between 2012 and 2015, will be one of the biggest orders for the Royal Navy.

BAE Systems, VT Group, Babcock, Thales and KBR have finished the design specifications and cost estimates for the carriers and will submit their report to the Government on October 26. The MoD is expected to go to “main gate” with the project — the final stage in commissioning the ships — around December.

The success of the carrier project has been heralded by the defence industry and the MoD as an example of how future collaboration in the shipbuilding industry may work. The MoD believes that formalising this co-operation will create a shipbuilder capable of competing internationally.

Lord Drayson, the defence procurement minister, told The Times last week: “The aircraft carrier is going well and I see that alliance as a road test to figure out how the industry can work together.” This is a strategy that Lord Drayson developed last year as part of his Defence Industrial Strategy.

So, an upbeat article on the carriers for once! Hopefully this means we will see main-gate by the end of the year, rather than putting it off until 2007. Of course nothing is certain, but I'll be keeping my fingers crossed....

[FuManChu]

More interesting developments.

http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=102723

The important bits:

• CVF (UK) main gate expected tomorrow
• French committed to the project
• Final agreement may come next year at a European summit
• Some aspects of the French design have been adapted for CVF, including:
  1) Increased flight-deck size, to provide necessary space for catapults & associated machinery
  2) The design now features 16 Sylver launchers for Aster 15 missiles

I shall be keeping a look-out tomorrow for confirmed details.

[tphuang]

This is on typhoon, since no Austrian thread, I figure I will put this here.

Oct. 31 (Bloomberg) -- Austrian Chancellor Wolfgang
Schuessel's People's Party suspended coalition talks with the
Social Democrats after they pushed through the formation of a
parliamentary committee to re-examine whether the country should
buy Eurofighter GmbH jets.
``The basis necessary for a trusting and fruitful
cooperation'' with the Social Democrats ``has been seriously
called into question,'' Schuessel said last night after a party
meeting. Schuessel will now call on Austrian President Heinz
Fischer to decide on how to proceed, the People's Party said.
The Social Democrats, who beat the People's Party into
second place in elections Oct. 1 and are now seeking to lead a
coalition of the two largest parties, want to cancel a 2
billion-euro ($2.5 billion) order for the 18 fighter planes. The
Social Democrats, the Freedom Party and the Greens agreed last
night to set up the committee.
The creation of a two-way coalition with the People's Party
is Social Democrat leader Alfred Gusenbauer's most
straightforward option for forming a government. Other
possibilities would involve Gusenbauer or Schuessel leading
three-party coalitions to ensure a parliamentary majority.
``The president still believes that cooperation between the
two biggest parties would be the most sensible form of
government in light of the election results,'' Bruno Aigner, a
spokesman for the president, said by telephone today. ``The
president is in constant contact with the party leaders,'' he
said.

`Temporary Solution'

``The general atmosphere is really bad, and in fact neither
party wants to form a coalition with the other,'' said Klaus
Poier, a political scientist at the University of Graz. ``A
temporary solution may be a minority government led by the
Social Democrats as both parties also want to avoid calling
elections again,'' he said.
Schuessel's government signed the purchase order for the 18
Eurofighters in July 2003, with delivery of the planes scheduled
to start next year. Eurofighter is a joint venture between
European Aeronautic, Defence & Space Co., BAE Systems Plc and
Finmeccanica SpA.
Parliament yesterday also agreed to set up a committee to
look at several banking scandals in Austria. Members of
Parliament will look into trading and investment losses at Bawag
PSK Bank and Hypo Group Alpe-Adria that emerged in March and
April this year.

Watchdog Probed

Lawmakers will also look at Raiffeisen Zentralbank's ties
with Ukrainian businessmen over the shipments of natural gas to
Western Europe. The committee is intended to investigate whether
the country's financial markets watchdog, the FMA, failed to
uncover the lack of risk management at Bawag and Hypo.
Klaus Liebscher, the governor of Austria's central bank
said today the inquiry must not call into question ``the high
reputation of Austria as a financial center.''
The Social Democrats took 35.3 percent of the vote compared
with 34.3 percent for the People's Party when Austria held
elections on Oct. 1. The Greens took 11.1 percent, while the
anti-immigrant Freedom Party took 11 percent. Schuessel's former
coalition partner, the Alliance for Austria's Future, gained 4.1
percent, also giving it seats in Parliament.

[FuManChu]

I'm not sure Austria can cancel the purchase. Well, to be more specific, it can cancel the order, but at this late stage penalty costs could easily be nearly as much as the planes themselves.

[tphuang]

anyhow, I really hope it doesn't, since typhoon is such a nice plane and deserves some export orders. I would really hate to see F-35 taking all the orders. Anyhow, a little bit on the aircraft carriers, looking like the projects might face some delays.

LONDON (AFX) - A multi-billion pound deal to build two new aircraft carriers
for Britain's Royal Navy risks slipping further behind schedule amid continuing
disagreements between the consortium building the craft and the Ministry of
Defence over rising costs, the Daily Telegraph reported, citing sources close to
the situation.
The Aircraft consortium, which includes BAE Systems PLC, VT Group PLC,
Thales and MoD officials should have submitted final price details Thursday, but
missed the deadline, the paper said.
The consortium says the carriers cannot be built for less than 3.8 bln stg,
up from an initial estimate of 2.8-3.0 bln.
Recent guidance from the MoD has been that the cost would be about 3.5 bln.

[FuManChu]

In relations to tphuang's last post, that problem now seems resolved. Apologies for the link - registration only.

U.K., Companies Agree on Price for Two Aircraft Carriers

A program to build two aircraft carriers for the British Royal Navy is expected to go before the Ministry of Defence’s (MoD’s) Investment Approvals Board (IAB) Nov. 9 after a last-minute deal was agreed over the price of the vessels between government and the industry alliance set to build the warship....

IAB go-ahead is the start of a process which, if things go according to plan, could see the government announce the deal, known here as Main Gate, before Parliament goes into Christmas recess in mid-December. The two sides have settled on an incentive agreement which reduces the final cost of the two 65,000-metric-ton carriers to about 3.6 billion pounds, sources say.

More up-to-date news from Jane's. Sorry, I don't have a subscription. Well, who does?

UK carrier project poised for go-ahead
The UK's Future Aircraft Carrier (CVF) programme has been given the green light by the Ministry of Defence's (MoD's) top-level Defence Management Board (DMB).

24-Nov-2006

Anyway, it's a bit of good news. Seems like things are moving towards Main Gate, though I will keep my fingers crossed.

[bd popeye]

UK to make significant troop reductions in Iraq in 2007

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/w...tain-iraq.html

British commitment in Iraq to be 'significantly' reduced by end of 2007

By Jennifer Quinn
ASSOCIATED PRESS

10:30 a.m. November 27, 2006

LONDON – Thousands of British soldiers will leave Iraq over the next year, significantly downgrading the country's commitment in the region, the defense secretary said Monday. Poland and Italy also announced the impending withdrawal of their remaining troops.
The reduction of British troops will occur as control of two southern provinces is transferred to Iraqi forces, although Defense Secretary Des Browne insisted that “handover does not mean withdrawal.”

“Even when all the provinces are handed over, we will still be providing a force to mentor and back up the Iraqi army and police, and to protect coalition supply routes,” he said. “But I can tell you that by the end of next year I expect numbers of British forces in Iraq to be significantly lower – by a matter of thousands.”
Britain has more than 7,000 British troops in Iraq, primarily in the south; At the height of the conflict, there were about 46,000. Browne said the British military presence in Iraq would be determined by officials in London and Baghdad.

Also on Monday Polish President Lech Kaczynski said his country, a U.S. ally in Iraq and Afghanistan, would pull its remaining 900 soldiers out of Iraq by the end of 2007. And Italian Premier Romano Prodi said the last of Italy's soldiers in Iraq – some 60-70 troops – will return home this week, ending the Italian contingent's presence in the south of the country after more than three years.

In a speech to the Royal Institute of International Affairs, a foreign policy think-tank, Browne also warned Iran that it faces increasing isolation if it does not use its influence in Iraq constructively, but he spared Syria from similar criticism.

“Its foreign minister – the first senior-ranking Syrian official to visit Iraq since Saddam Hussein's fall – has re-established diplomatic ties and stated that Damascus is ready to engage in dialogue, and work for stability in Iraq and the region,” he said. “But, as ever, we need to see actions to match the words.”

Browne, singling out Iran, said the Islamic republic's support of insurgents is unacceptable and counterproductive.

“Iran must start seeing Iraq not as a tool in a wider confrontation with the West, but as a vital interest in its own right,” Browne said. “Iran's interest is in a stable, non-aggressive Iraq. So the message to Iran is simple; Be a constructive partner, help yourself as well as the wider region, or face increasing isolation.”

Last week, Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said Britain may be able to hand over security responsibility in the southern port city of Basra by the spring of next year. Britain also hopes to hand security control over to the Iraqis in the province of Maysan, on the Iranian border, in January.