Taiwan military news and discussion part II

Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster

So the US claims there will be no change in policy, just another drop in the bucket article showing increasingly that the F-16 deal will go ahead.

I have a dumb question. When the US sells weapons to Taiwan, is there some kind of discount that only applies to Taiwan? I would think it would because the US sees it as an obligation, not simply a chance to make some money. Am I correct?

Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster

So the US claims there will be no change in policy, just another drop in the bucket article showing increasingly that the F-16 deal will go ahead.

They can't say that they'll sell it before the paperwork goes through, for obvious reasons. I think the question is not so much if, more when (i.e. before the end of the year or sometime in 2010).

Originally Posted by vesicles

I have a dumb question. When the US sells weapons to Taiwan, is there some kind of discount that only applies to Taiwan? I would think it would because the US sees it as an obligation, not simply a chance to make some money. Am I correct?

You might think so, but I haven't read anything to suggest Taiwan gets a discount. There have been suggestions that Taiwan, if anything, is charged a premium, but I think that's propaganda from those who oppose Taiwan buying arms. Really Taiwan pays what most other countries do.

In the actual political context, I do not think Mr Pres. Obama will allow the F-16 C/D sale to Taiwan ROC. That s my point! Perhaps by the end of 2010. How much money did China lend to the USA during the crisis?

Originally Posted by Aero_Wing_32

In the actual political context, I do not think Mr Pres. Obama will allow the F-16 C/D sale to Taiwan ROC. That s my point! Perhaps by the end of 2010. How much money did China lend to the USA during the crisis?

I think the sale will go through and China will do little more than verbal objection, like usual. My personal opinion: Taiwan is no longer a priority for China. China's strategic ambition is much more than simply taking back Taiwan. China is using Taiwan as an excuse to expand its military. So whenever China's expanding defense is brought up, the Chinese can say "hey we want Taiwan and this is our own issue and has nothing to do with others". This way, other nations would less likely to be alarmed by China's military expansion. even Taiwan is still a priority, it is a short term one.

Another thing, China could also be using Taiwan as leverage against the US. Like a bargaining, China can say to the US "hey we've made concession with you on the issue of Taiwan and let the arms sale go through. What can you do for us?"

My 2-cent...

Originally Posted by vesicles

I think the sale will go through and China will do little more than verbal objection, like usual. My personal opinion: Taiwan is no longer a priority for China. China's strategic ambition is much more than simply taking back Taiwan. China is using Taiwan as an excuse to expand its military. So whenever China's expanding defense is brought up, the Chinese can say "hey we want Taiwan and this is our own issue and has nothing to do with others". This way, other nations would less likely to be alarmed by China's military expansion. even Taiwan is still a priority, it is a short term one.

Another thing, China could also be using Taiwan as leverage against the US. Like a bargaining, China can say to the US "hey we've made concession with you on the issue of Taiwan and let the arms sale go through. What can you do for us?"

My 2-cent...

Plus they might get to have a sneeky peek in a round about way

Originally Posted by vesicles

I think the sale will go through and China will do little more than verbal objection, like usual. My personal opinion: Taiwan is no longer a priority for China.

If the sale goes ahead, China will probably suspend military ties with the US again. But apart from words it won't do much else.

However, I think that China will be lobbying to stop a sale before it is approved. It will do so quite strongly too. China still wants to gain and sustain an overwhelming military advantage over Taiwan. It can't do that if the US continues to make significant arms sales to the country.

Originally Posted by Mr T

If the sale goes ahead, China will probably suspend military ties with the US again. But apart from words it won't do much else.

However, I think that China will be lobbying to stop a sale before it is approved. It will do so quite strongly too. China still wants to gain and sustain an overwhelming military advantage over Taiwan. It can't do that if the US continues to make significant arms sales to the country.

Since we are talking about a potential arms race in Asia in another thread, how far do you think Taiwan is willing to go in terms of striking a balance with China. Is it possible that China is actually secretly wishing the sale would go through and this trend would continue? Meaning that, as China keeps stockpiling missiles across the strait, Taiwan would be pushed into a potential arms race, which would eventually go disastrous for Taiwan.

Originally Posted by vesicles

Since we are talking about a potential arms race in Asia in another thread, how far do you think Taiwan is willing to go in terms of striking a balance with China. Is it possible that China is actually secretly wishing the sale would go through and this trend would continue? Meaning that, as China keeps stockpiling missiles across the strait, Taiwan would be pushed into a potential arms race, which would eventually go disastrous for Taiwan.

no, because arms race insinuates or induces a political hostility. both sides have worked so hard to defuse the bomb, it'd be pretty sad if this thing starts again. China never lacks the motivation for military modernization, it'll obviously crush Taiwan in an arms race but that doesnt make Beijing the winner.

Originally Posted by vesicles

Since we are talking about a potential arms race in Asia in another thread, how far do you think Taiwan is willing to go in terms of striking a balance with China.

It's not like Taiwan is overexerting itself. It's only buying such weapons as a country of its size would reasonably do so, unless it was like Ireland and surrounded by friends with no regional threat. If Taiwan doesn't get the F-16s, where's its airforce going to be in the future?

China may be the immediate reason for buying arms but they would still be bought even if it wasn't a threat.

U.S. pledges new arms sales to Taiwan

The United States plans to resume arms sales to Taiwan and warned of a build-up of missiles aimed at the island by China, a top U.S. diplomat said Tuesday.

Washington has not struck any new arms deals with Taiwan since President Barack Obama was sworn in at the start of the year, sparking concerns in Taipei that sales had been informally suspended.

Beijing opposes all U.S. arms sales to Taiwan and has called previous deals a sticking point in Sino-U.S. relations.

Tuesday, however, Washington's top diplomat in Taiwan said weapons sales would continue under Obama, although he declined to give specifics.

"The number (of Chinese missiles) continues to grow," Raymond Burghardt, chairman of the de facto U.S. embassy in Taipei, told a news conference.

Taiwan leaders say China has aimed 1,000 to 1,500 short-range and medium-range missiles at the island.

"It's a form of threat," Burghardt said. "That's the only way to look at it. Of course they should remove the missiles."

China has claimed sovereignty over self-ruled Taiwan since 1949, when Mao Zedong's forces won the Chinese civil war and Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalists fled to the island.

Beijing has vowed to bring Taiwan under its rule, by force if necessary.

Washington recognizes China diplomatically and is seeking to improve relations with the Asian economic powerhouse, but the U.S. is also Taiwan's closest informal ally and obliged by the 1979 Taiwan Relations Act to help with its defense.

Taiwan is seeking a $4.9 billion deal for 66 advanced F-16s to modernize its military. Burghardt said the request was being evaluated.

Originally Posted by Mr T

U.S. pledges new arms sales to Taiwan

How many articles of this kind have we seen since Taiwan wants these F-16???

Obama will have the last word (or the pressuring RPC?). I dare say, he doesnt seem to take any decision in that way, for now...

Selling weapons to Taiwan is the worst way to help them.

Originally Posted by A.Man

Selling weapons to Taiwan is the worst way to help them.

Maybe it is. I think China should lead the way by engaging in unilateral disarmament. Scrap the nukes, scrap the subs, ships, planes and tanks. Use the money to build a social security network.

If China leads, Taiwan would probably happily follow.

According to the China Times the Taiwanese airforce and AIDC have signed a contract for the upgrade of 71 IDFs to C/D standard. Some good news before Christmas.