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Taiwan military news and discussion part II

This is a discussion on Taiwan military news and discussion part II within the World Armed Forces forums, part of the World Strategic Defence Area category; Is the Democrats/Obama Administration not willing to talk, or is it just that Taiwan isn't willing to talk to them? ...

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Old 06-11-2009   #811
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Re: Taiwan military news and discussion part II

Is the Democrats/Obama Administration not willing to talk, or is it just that Taiwan isn't willing to talk to them?

I was wondering....would there be anymore possible upgrades that could extend the F-5's capability? Since the F-16s are seeming unlikely to be sold anytime soon.

Last edited by kliu0; 06-11-2009 at 01:47 AM.
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Old 06-11-2009   #812
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Re: Taiwan military news and discussion part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster View Post
Once again, Taiwan is pushing the F-16 through the Republicans which will get them nowhere as the house is now, with no real direct talks with the Obama administration.
According to an article that quotes Republican legislators as supporting the deal? How is that a logical conclusion? This was a conference hosted by the Heritage Foundation, not Taiwanese-sponsored procurement talks. Also there are Democrats who back the sale (always have been). The Taiwan Caucus is bipartisan. That senior Democrats weren't quoted in a newspaper article as no relation to what support there is in Congress.

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Originally Posted by kliu0 View Post
Is the Democrats/Obama Administration not willing to talk, or is it just that Taiwan isn't willing to talk to them?
Of course Taiwan wants to talk - indeed it is talking.
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Old 06-11-2009   #813
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Re: Taiwan military news and discussion part II

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Originally Posted by Mr T View Post
According to an article that quotes Republican legislators as supporting the deal? How is that a logical conclusion? This was a conference hosted by the Heritage Foundation, not Taiwanese-sponsored procurement talks. Also there are Democrats who back the sale (always have been). The Taiwan Caucus is bipartisan. That senior Democrats weren't quoted in a newspaper article as no relation to what support there is in Congress.
Ahh woops, I was posting really late that night and sort of missed a paragraph, it does mention the Democrat-majority House Foreign Affairs Committee. I guess I saw so many Republican names and the Heritage Institute and I jumped the gun a bit. Although I believe the 'general consensus on Capitol Hill' is a bit over blown since I'm not sure how much International experience Congress has right now. But still from I read though, there has been no direct talks with the Obama administration on the F-16 issue yet.
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Old 06-11-2009   #814
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Re: Taiwan military news and discussion part II

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Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster View Post
Once again, Taiwan is pushing the F-16 through the Republicans which will get them nowhere as the house is now, with no real direct talks with the Obama administration.
Exactly..They need to deal now with the Democrats and Obama administration to get the equipment they need. Otherwise they may well end up empty handed.
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Old 06-11-2009   #815
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Re: Taiwan military news and discussion part II

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Originally Posted by Semi-Lobster View Post
Although I believe the 'general consensus on Capitol Hill' is a bit over blown since I'm not sure how much International experience Congress has right now.
Putting aside members who served previously, American politicians are usually pro-Taiwan. I can't remember the last Congress was anti-Taiwan, or even not supportive of arms sales generally (unless it concerned the most top-end stuff).

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But still from I read though, there has been no direct talks with the Obama administration on the F-16 issue yet.
Direct talks were certainly planned according to Taiwanese government statements back in April. If they have not started yet they will soon.
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Old 06-11-2009   #816
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Re: Taiwan military news and discussion part II

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Direct talks were certainly planned according to Taiwanese government statements back in April. If they have not started yet they will soon.
Speak of the Devil......

Campbell confirms arms talks

Quote:
Kurt Campbell said at his Senate confirmation hearing on his nomination for assistant secretary of state for East Asian affairs that there were “discussions under way right now” on the outstanding request for arms sales to Taiwan.

But he declined to reveal his own stance on the issue when the Foreign Relations Asia subcommittee’s Democratic chairman Senator Jim Webb asked Campbell for his position on supplying Taiwan with F-16 fighter jets, Black Hawk helicopters and design assistance for diesel electric submarines....

An Asia scholar with a good record on Taiwan, he is believed to favor the launching of a new Taiwan Policy Review, which is expected to get underway this summer.

Campbell is also thought to favor the sale of F-16s to Taiwan.
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Old 06-11-2009   #817
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Re: Taiwan military news and discussion part II

Heres a nice editorial, courtesy of Taipei Times:

I've taken the courtesy of editing out some politics. The full article (unedited) is at the link.

EDITORIAL: Military hopes raised by US signals

Taipei Times - archives

Quote:
Signs from Washington over the last few days must have encouraged those in the military who are clamoring for the purchase of 66 F-16C/D fighter jets from the US.

Politicians attending a Taiwan-themed conference this week gave indications there was broad consensus on Capitol Hill to support such a move, and this was followed by more positive news on future arms sales from Kurt Campbell during his Senate confirmation hearing on Wednesday for the post of assistant secretary of state for East Asian affairs.

Let’s be blunt: Taiwan’s Air Force is in desperate need of some new hardware.

A recent article in Defense News said the Air Force has 390 fighters, including 146 F-16A/Bs, purchased in 1992; 128 Indigenous Defense Fighters, developed in the 1980s; 56 Mirage jets, also purchased in 1992 but which may soon be mothballed because of high maintenance costs; and roughly 60 F-5s, which are due to be retired in the next few years.

Compare this situation with China’s rapidly modernizing military arsenal and it is clear that the Air Force needs the US to act fast on this matter if it is to maintain any semblance of credibility in air power.

Support from US lawmakers, however, does not necessarily translate to a green light, as any arms sale would also need the approval of the White House, the State Department and the Pentagon.

The likelihood of that approval is hard to assess because after five months in office there is no clear indication of the Obama administration’s policy direction on Taiwan.

Campbell’s confirmation would be a good sign, as he has a strong record of support for Taiwan. But he alone will not be enough, as there are others in the administration, such as special envoy to North Korea Stephen Bosworth, who see Taiwan’s democracy as an irritant in the US’ relations with China.

There has been talk of a Taiwan policy review and this will surely be the key to determining the scope and scale of any sales, but Chinese relations with the US will also have a bearing on future deals, despite Washington’s claims to the contrary.

But the biggest hurdle to sales of more advanced weaponry may be Taiwan itself.

Although there has been lots of positive feedback from US officials on the direction of cross-strait relations, the rapid pace of the rapprochement must also have raised concerns about the wisdom of selling advanced weaponry to Taipei while noises emanate from both sides of the Taiwan Strait about “military confidence-building measures.”

The downplaying of Taiwan’s military capacity could also make Taiwan reluctant to pursue such a high-profile deal and also further baffle sections of a military already confused about its role.
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Old 06-11-2009   #818
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Re: Taiwan military news and discussion part II

a new arms deal can prolly help america's military industry just a little bit but compare that to what they might be risking in face of Beijing's retaliation, i seriously doubt obama would give a greenlight to this any time soon
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Old 06-12-2009   #819
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Re: Taiwan military news and discussion part II

Thanks for the information.This site especially structured for people in the military services offers the latest in technology. They make communication easy and manageable and offer yet another facility with video phones that just need a microphone and a web cam. All the member has to do is to enter a list of contacts of the friends and family that he/she would like to exchange messages with. Log on to: MyMilitaryYears.com - Helping military families stay in touch across the world with video, audio, and text messages for special features.
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Old 06-12-2009   #820
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Re: Taiwan military news and discussion part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by pla101prc View Post
a new arms deal can prolly help america's military industry just a little bit but compare that to what they might be risking in face of Beijing's retaliation, i seriously doubt obama would give a greenlight to this any time soon
It's not just about cash, it's also about strategic balance. It's not in America's interest to see China have an ever increasing military advantage over Taiwan.

China has cards to play against the US, but it's also been pointed out that some of them (financial) would hurt it just as much. That's why I would be very surprised if the Black Hawk deal did not pass by the end of the year. Don't know about the submarines, but I wouldn't write the F-16s off either.
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Old 06-12-2009   #821
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Re: Taiwan military news and discussion part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr T View Post
It's not just about cash, it's also about strategic balance. It's not in America's interest to see China have an ever increasing military advantage over Taiwan.

China has cards to play against the US, but it's also been pointed out that some of them (financial) would hurt it just as much. That's why I would be very surprised if the Black Hawk deal did not pass by the end of the year. Don't know about the submarines, but I wouldn't write the F-16s off either.
Hello pals!
I second that Mr T.
But I also mostly agree with pla101prc's post, when he mentioned about the risk USA would take in dealing arms to Taiwan ROC... How many hundreds of billions USD did PRC lend to the USA during the crisis?!
Even though discussions are under way now, I also don t think that any deal would come this year!
And are we sure that Taiwan is only discussing with USA now?
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Old 06-12-2009   #822
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Re: Taiwan military news and discussion part II

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How many hundreds of billions USD did PRC lend to the USA during the crisis?!
I could be wrong, but I believe that China didn't lend America a penny. It continued to buy Treasury shares, which is an investment. That's why China can't veto US arms sales to Taiwan, just try to have them delayed or encourage Washington to limit what is sold.

Quote:
Even though discussions are under way now, I also don t think that any deal would come this year!
If there isn't a deal for the F-16s this year I think Taiwan will start buying newly-built IDFs. It needs to plug the fighter gap. I have a feeling the Black Hawks will be sorted before the end of the year though.

Quote:
And are we sure that Taiwan is only discussing with USA now?
Not at all, I'm sure they're still talking to the French.
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Old 06-12-2009   #823
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Re: Taiwan military news and discussion part II

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Originally Posted by Mr T View Post
It's not just about cash, it's also about strategic balance. It's not in America's interest to see China have an ever increasing military advantage over Taiwan.

China has cards to play against the US, but it's also been pointed out that some of them (financial) would hurt it just as much. That's why I would be very surprised if the Black Hawk deal did not pass by the end of the year. Don't know about the submarines, but I wouldn't write the F-16s off either.
there is a difference between black hawk and f-16 lol.
i have been studying IR every day for the past two years and i can tell you a couple of new jet fighters will not change the balance of power there. whenever Taiwan acquires something new, it will not take long for the Mainland to come up with a way or a weapon to counter it. balance of power aint all about weapons, otherwise Germany would have crushed Soviet Union back in 41 (or was it 42 i forgot). the Mainland has way more of everything at its disposal than Taiwan does. in the end the Mainland is gonna benefit from making all their weapons because it builds a good industrial base and stimulates technology and economy. and Taiwan will be screwed cuz they are just spending money.
selling weapons have always been a political gesture. and right now it just aint time for obama to make this political gesture. maybe in a few years he will but not now unless he thinks he needs more of those useless political stunts to boost his own personal ego.
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Old 06-12-2009   #824
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Re: Taiwan military news and discussion part II

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Originally Posted by Mr T View Post
I could be wrong, but I believe that China didn't lend America a penny. It continued to buy Treasury shares, which is an investment. That's why China can't veto US arms sales to Taiwan, just try to have them delayed or encourage Washington to limit what is sold.



If there isn't a deal for the F-16s this year I think Taiwan will start buying newly-built IDFs. It needs to plug the fighter gap. I have a feeling the Black Hawks will be sorted before the end of the year though.



Not at all, I'm sure they're still talking to the French.
dude selling T-bills is the same as lending money, its word games.

Taiwan has a whole bunch of F-16's that were sold like during the bush sr era lol, i think those are gonna be out of service in 5-10 years. if they wanna replace those they'll need way more than 66 fighters. and this is like the preliminary round of preliminary round of the discussion (for F-16), so yeah they should either talk with the French (cuz they dont like China for the moment being) or they should buy a few more IDF.

again no surprise if the black hawk deal goes through, its a not an offensive weapon...
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Old 06-12-2009   #825
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Re: Taiwan military news and discussion part II

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dude selling T-bills is the same as lending money, its word games.
There are important distinctions, such as probable duration. But never mind. The point is that China has never (to my knowledge) stopped buying Treasury bills because of US arms sales to China. The most it has done is reduce relations on the military level.

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Taiwan has a whole bunch of F-16's that were sold like during the bush sr era lol, i think those are gonna be out of service in 5-10 years.
They're about 10-12 years old. I'd say they have a lot more than 5 years left in them. Depends how hard they've been flown, but in future years if necessary they might be suitable for SLEP.

Quote:
again no surprise if the black hawk deal goes through, its a not an offensive weapon...
Arguably F-16s aren't either if they're not sold offensive weapons to go with them. Currently Taiwan's only long-ranged air-to-ground missiles can be fired from the IDF.
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