Taiwan military news and discussion part II

Originally Posted by Jeff Head

Exactly...in this case they have appropriated their own money and are going to build them there.

Yeah, when the legislative yuan stumps up the funds for a domestic programme it normally happens. The only reason it wouldn't was if the funds were suspended, like when there were arguments over the contracts for the last missile boat programme.

Taiwan to receive four UH-60M Black Hawk helicopters - Avionics Intelligence

this has to be 40 mill for the mods as the original notification was 3 billion for 60 choppers..What mods would these be??? special ops??

Like the DF-21..has this alleged missile ever been tested against a moving target at sea? Does Taiwan carrier killer missile really exist?

Taiwan deploying more 'carrier killers': report - Yahoo! News

Taiwan is arming more of its fleet with its new "carrier killer" anti-ship missiles as China conducts further sea trials of its first aircraft carrier, local media said Monday.

Five of the Taiwanese navy's eight Perry-class frigates have been armed with the supersonic Hsiung Ffeng (Brave Wind) III weapons, the Taipei-based China Times said.

Some of its smaller patrol boats have also been equipped with the missiles, which are designed to cruise at a speed of Mach 2.0, or twice the speed of sound, with a range of up to 130 kilometres (80 miles), the newspaper said.

The defence ministry declined to comment on the report.

The China Times said the navy plans to deploy 120 such missiles -- dubbed "aircraft carrier killers" by their developer -- in a project costing an estimated Tw$12 billion ($400 million).

The missiles were first unveiled by Taiwan in August last year on the same day that China began sea trials for its first aircraft carrier, a reconditioned 1980s-era warship originally commissioned by the Soviet navy.

China has conducted seven sea trials of the ship since mid-2011, the paper said, without identifying its source.

Taiwan's defence ministry has expressed alarm at China's recent naval expansion, although one expert said the People's Liberation Army (PLA) was still years away from operating a fully-equipped aircraft carrier.

Kevin Cheng, editor-in-chief of the Taipei-based Asia-Pacific Defense Magazine, told AFP: "It will take the PLA at least five years to operate a carrier group with full combat capability."

The biggest challenge to the navy will be the implementation of software, he added.

Ties between China and Taiwan have improved significantly since the Beijing-friendly Ma Ying-jeou became the island's president in 2008, vowing to adopt a non-confrontational policy towards the mainland.

But China still regards Taiwan as part of its territory awaiting reunification, by force if necessary, although the island has governed itself since the two sides separated in 1949 after a long civil war.

Well, we have seen pictures of the HF-3 before.

On the other hand, I doubt that the missile is large enough to damage a carrier, absent a very large salvo (which then raises questions about how the ROCN intends to get close enough to a PLAN carrier).

AFP

Taiwan is to build 12 new "stealth" warships in reaction to China's naval build-up, the island's navy announced Tuesday.

Navy Captain Chu Hsu-ming told reporters Lung Teh Shipbuilding Co, a private firm, has been awarded a Tw$890 million ($30.1 million) contract for the construction of the first 500-tonne corvette, with delivery slated for 2014.

The prototype will be the first of 12 such twin-hulled boats, which the designer said are hard to detect on radar.

Anyone have a rendering of these 500-tonne corvette. I presume they are in the mold of the Swedish and Norwegian stealth corvettes?

Taiwan's problem is not lacking of money, but a strong willed government and society. The main force behind all the high tech weapon projects is the ChungShan Institute of Science and Technology, which is a branch of the military. It had been downgraded multiple times and this year or next, it will be completely removed from the military and further downgrade into a civilian branch.

Their problem is not that they can't do it or don't know how to do it, neither do they not have the money. It's simply the fact that they are aimless, like a college freshman, not knowing what to do with his life.

Like I have mentioned multiple times before, the Taiwan Strait problem is almost entirely sociopolitical instead of military struggle. Mainland China sees Taiwan and its people as their own, the cross- strait armed buildup is merely a prevention of separation than the American ideology of a tool for foreign exploitation. The people in Taiwan knows this and as a result becomes a mental obstacle for their own military build up.

They are Chinese themselves and the hostility towards the mainland is more anti-communism rather than anti-China. With the mainland itself gradually democratizing and quickly becoming prosperous, their views towards the mainland are growingly softening. The warm ties led to a slow down in the military build-up. This process is slow but ongoing, eventually led to today's incompetency and aimlessness of its military industry.

Originally Posted by Skywatcher

Well, we have seen pictures of the HF-3 before.

On the other hand, I doubt that the missile is large enough to damage a carrier, absent a very large salvo (which then raises questions about how the ROCN intends to get close enough to a PLAN carrier).

As the Brits found out in the Falklands you don't need to have a humongous weapon to blow your ship to pieces or sink it ,almost any hit from an iron bomb or an AShM will put it a modern surface combatant out of action and thats good enuff. A HF3 at Mach 2 even with a 200 or 100kg warhead will likely stop your flight operations on a carrier or worse.

---------- Post added at 05:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:54 PM ----------

[QUOTE=Geographer;189126][URL="http://news.yahoo.com/taiwan-build-stealth-warship-fleet-
Anyone have a rendering of these 500-tonne corvette. I presume they are in the mold of the Swedish and Norwegian stealth corvettes?[/QUOTE]

They are supposed to be more like the catamaran style PRC Houbei class.

Originally Posted by cptplt

As the Brits found out in the Falklands you don't need to have a humongous weapon to blow your ship to pieces or sink it ,almost any hit from an iron bomb or an AShM will put it a modern surface combatant out of action and thats good enuff. A HF3 at Mach 2 even with a 200 or 100kg warhead will likely stop your flight operations on a carrier or worse.

Considering that the Varyag is easily ten times the size of those RN destroyers in the Falkland wars, a 200 kg warhead just isn't going to cut it. You'd need a lot of hits to even make the Varyag stop flight operations (and that's assuming you can get within range of the Varyag. Good luck trying that out on the open seas, and enough missiles get past the 052C DDG and 054A FFGs).

Originally Posted by Skywatcher

Considering that the Varyag is easily ten times the size of those RN destroyers in the Falkland wars, a 200 kg warhead just isn't going to cut it. You'd need a lot of hits to even make the Varyag stop flight operations (and that's assuming you can get within range of the Varyag. Good luck trying that out on the open seas, and enough missiles get past the 052C DDG and 054A FFGs).

It was during the aerospace exhibition when HF3 made with that "carrier-killer" backdrop, and at that time ex-Varyag got the headlines, so naturally this is more of a one-upmanship than anything in particular.

And even by the Soviet's doctrine it calls for a swarm of missiles coming from all directions, whereas ROCN lack that kind of resources and tactical edge to conduct such a strike.

Originally Posted by Skywatcher

Considering that the Varyag is easily ten times the size of those RN destroyers in the Falkland wars, a 200 kg warhead just isn't going to cut it. You'd need a lot of hits to even make the Varyag stop flight operations (and that's assuming you can get within range of the Varyag. Good luck trying that out on the open seas, and enough missiles get past the 052C DDG and 054A FFGs).

true the Varyag is much larger than the RN combatants but its only twice as large as the Atlantic Conveyor. What exactly do the 052 and 054 have capable of stopping a supersonic AShM??? If as planned all the Cheng Kungs and Kidds and probably another dozen smaller missile boats are fitted with HF3. even before the new class of missile boats arrive, you got yourself a potential "swarm". And do you really think the PLAN will send their one and only carrier anywhere near harms way or anywhere where it would be actually useful in a straits conflict? If I were the PLAN I would put more faith in the poor reliability of the ROC weapons than any inherent PLA ability to defend from those weapons![COLOR="Silver"]

Originally Posted by cptplt

true the Varyag is much larger than the RN combatants but its only twice as large as the Atlantic Conveyor. What exactly do the 052 and 054 have capable of stopping a supersonic AShM??? If as planned all the Cheng Kungs and Kidds and probably another dozen smaller missile boats are fitted with HF3. even before the new class of missile boats arrive, you got yourself a potential "swarm". And do you really think the PLAN will send their one and only carrier anywhere near harms way or anywhere where it would be actually useful in a straits conflict? If I were the PLAN I would put more faith in the poor reliability of the ROC weapons than any inherent PLA ability to defend from those weapons![COLOR="Silver"]

The Atlantic Conveyor and the Varyag are built to different standards. That's like comparing an Alpha Jet to an A-10 asking if a few dozen 20mm rounds would have the same impact on both warplanes.

The HQ-9 and HQ-16 can shoot down supersonic AShMs (guess what a higher flight altitude does for detection and engagement).

The FACs, Cheng Kungs and Kidds will get bombed kingdom to come before they get within range of the Varyag (the only engagement of ROCN vs. Ex-Varyag will obviously be in open waters such as the South China Sea. Try hiding surface combatants there).

And since the PLAN has no operational need or even desire to put the ex-Varyag in the Taiwan Straits, painting the HF-3 as a carrier killer is frankly a complete non sequitur.

Page not found - Taipei Times
so when is the ROC MND going to send that letter back to the US DOD accepting the upgrade offer. they supposedly received it in may.

Taiwan is set to recieve sub launched Harpoons next year.

Subs to be equipped with Harpoon missiles next year

Taiwan’s two combat-capable submarines will be equipped with anti-ship missiles next year, providing the nation’s undersea force with a long-distance strike capability it had previously lacked.

The Chinese-language United Daily News reported on Wednesday that more than 30 US-built surface-to-surface Harpoon cruise missiles would become operational on the two Hailung-class submarines sometime next year. The subsonic sea-skimming missiles, which have a range of about 125km, will bring targets along the Chinese coast within range.

The navy recently test-fired the weapons in the US in preparation for their installation on the Dutch-built submarines, the report said, citing unnamed navy sources.

A US$6.4 billion arms sale notification to US Congress in October 2008 included 32 UGM-84L sub-launched Harpoon Block II missiles, plus two UTM-84L exercise missiles and two weapon control systems for Taiwan.

The US Department of Defense awarded a US$43.85 million defense contract to Boeing for the production and procurement of 32 Harpoon missiles for Taiwan in June 2010, with work to be completed in June last year.

The navy has declined to comment on the report, citing a policy of not discussing arms purchases with the media. Taiwan’s frigates and F-16 aircraft are already armed with Harpoon missiles.

However, integrating the Harpoon missiles requires substantial modifications to existing fire control systems and launch tubes and some defense analysts have been skeptical as to whether the Hailungs could accommodate them. Reports last year that indigenously made Hsiung Feng II cruise missiles had been test-launched on the subs were discredited soon afterwards.

However, the latest news is far more credible. The navy first announced its intention to modify the submarines so they could fire Harpoon missiles back in 2005.

Approached for comment, a retired navy officer told the Taipei Times yesterday that the project was entirely feasible.

A standalone fire control system that does not interfere with existing combat systems must be developed, the source said, adding that while it was possible to have the Harpoon fire control system integrated to current systems, doing so would require complicated engineering modification work.

In addition to the fire control systems, adjustments to the torpedo tube mechanism could be necessary to accommodate the launch of both torpedoes and the Harpoon missiles, the source said.

Another option would be to add a standalone launch tube for the Harpoons, he said.

US firm Boeing Co, which was the main contractor for the project, sent experts to Taiwan to assist the navy complete the necessary modifications on the submarines.

Additional work may also have been carried out by Raytheon Corp.

Subs to be equipped with Harpoon missiles next year - Taipei Times

US and Taiwan in $3.8bn F-16 upgrade deal

A 3.8 billion dollar deal to upgrade all 145 of the ROCAF's F-16's with AESA radar. "The agreement provides for Taiwan, adding advanced active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar to its fighters, as well as for making structural upgrades, improving avionics, and expanding electronic warfare suites,". So its the full upgrade package, bringing Taiwan's F-16 A/B fleet from one of the oldest and least effective to some of the most advanced. The two competitors for this tender are, of course, the Raytheon advanced combat radar (RACR) and the Northrop's Grumman's Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR). Lockheed and AIDC have already to upgrade the F-16 fleets avionics jointly.