SinoDefence Forum

planeman

Hi, I remember from my attempts to calculate the "throw weight" of various navy's anti-ship missile arenals that USN experts here think that the I should have considered the TACTOM.

I'm thinking of doing a Bluffer's guide to Anti-Ship missiles and need research.

So tell me about TACTOM - how many are in service, what is it capable of etc. Should I count it as an anti-ship missile at all?

I'm guessing the top slot will be either the Brahmos, Klub (supersonic version) or HF-III... or TACTOM. With strong showings from the Japanese and South Koreans, YJ-62 coming out in top 10 probably as well.

I think I'll stick with ship launched missiles. Maybe throw ESSM and Standard SM-1/2 in there too.

szbd

It's not an anti ship missile. It uses GPS for targeting.

Totoro

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-109.html
http://www.raytheon.com/products/ste...s01_055764.pdf

Based on what those links say, I would think that Tactom can definitely be used as an antiship missile. What isn't clear is whether there is a system onboard that interprets the imagery from onboard camera and redirects the missile towards the target on its own. If such a capability is not there, then the missile relies solely on the ability to get corrected gps coordinates very fast. We don't know the max frequency of updates, so... In any case, it looks like the smaller and more agile target is - harder it would be for tactom to engage it. (one must not forget that tactom can hold various kinds of warheads - including cluster munitions, which could theoretically come in handy in certain situations)

As for Standards and ESSM, they should definiltey be included, in my opinion. USN has used/tested both in antiship roles and they perform their task just fine. Of course, they do have a limited range in such a role and their warheads aren't quite on par with real anti ship missiles.

Planeman, please don't forget NSM - i have a feeling that's one extremely potent weapon in its size class.

planeman

Yeah, NSM is very impressive. About the only one that can truly claim a degree of stealth I expect also.

I just got some leads on Cuban navy so maybe the missile thing will get put off.

Tasman

I'd be very pleased to be corrected but my understanding is that Standard SM-1/2 can only be used against ships if fired from an above deck launcher and these have disappeared from the USN. Is anyone able to confirm or refute this? I also understand that the recent ESSM test against surface targets was from an above deck launcher and not a VLS cell. Does anyone know if ESSM can be used against a surface target when fired from a VLS cell?

Early versions of the Tomahawk included the BGM-109B TASM (Tomahawk Anti-Ship Missile). I understand it had a guidance system similar to Harpoon. I can't see why an updated system could not be fitted to the latest Tomahawk variants.

Cheers

szbd

All those missiles can not compare with harpoon in breaking AA defence of modern ships, so.......

Totoro

Well, I have absolutely no info on VLS versus deck launchers. But if missile itself is the same - what is more likely and logical: that is can engage surface targets or that it can't? When we have no info, we must assume things - and in those cases we should be guided by likelyhood and logic.

As for harpoon vs standards and essms - it really all depends. IF it happens that target is engaged within ship's horizon, essm and standards offer much greater reaction speed. At such distances, where there's danger of even a gun battle, speed can be everything. Now, standards and essms may fly straight and not evade, but they're damn fast. It could very well even out.

planeman

How so?

szbd

Because they fly too high.

Totoro

True, tomahawk does fly a little higher than harpoon, but not THAT much. 15 meters is still rather low, offering maybe a second more warning to the target. No one here is saying that tactom is a good antiship missile, of course harpoon is better; but it probably could do the job if needed, albeit with less of a success rate.

Standard and ESSM's flight altitude is of no importance here as they would be used only on targets within ship's horizon - where it doesn't really matter if you shoot a harpoon or essm at the target - they'd still detect it immediately after the launch.

planeman

Exocet, RBS-15, C-802, HF-II, Klub, SA-N-25; don't they all fly about the same "sea skimming" hieght?

Popular stats on flying altitudes

Harpoon: 2m
Exocet: 2m

szbd

I thought we are talking about standard and ESSM as AShW missiles.