SinoDefence Forum

Vlad Plasmius

I think they made a mistake and it was actually referring to all the ships having that many aircraft all together.

Lociz

you are partly correct...the 47 planes were including strategic bombers participating in exercises. I am giving up on this forum. My post are removed..Cant post info about the Kuznetsov deployment.

The following ships are deploying:
Admiral Kuznetsov - carrier
Admiral Levchenko - Udaloy I destroyer
Admiral Chabanenko - Udaloy II destroyer
Sergey Osipov - Boris Chilikin class fleet oiler
Nikolaj Chiker - salvage tug
Moskva - Slava class cruiser
Ivan Bubnov - Boris Chilikin class fleet oiler
Iman - Olekma class light oiler
Lena - Uda class light oiler
Kola - Altay class light oiler
Unnamed salvage tug

Remember this is INCLUDING strategic bombers who will take part in exercises. Kuznetsov can only take 12 Flankers i think, 4-5 Frogfots and 20 Kamov's. Both the Udaloys can take 2 Kamovs each. I dont think they have enough trained pilots to fill the ship, but Kuznetsov is very much operative, and a very capable ship. She has got an impressive weaponload, for example the SS-N-19 missiles. She has some limitations in number of planes, but remember she was built to protect SSBN submarines and other naval surface ships..

Can someone copy my posts and repost before they are removed. Don know if its problem with the forum, my acount or if they are removed by admin.

Some info about the deployment:
http://mnweekly.ru/news/20071206/55295359.html
http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/politics/...issue=11926134
http://www.barentsobserver.com/index...ir=1&noredir=1
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssE...15126720071211

Imerged the post to neaten up the forum

Lociz

i am trying to post some links from Interfax, Reuters etc..Is that illegal????

bd popeye

Go right ahead and post..I post Reuters pix everyday....It is Spam we don't allow...

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Finn McCool

Lociz, I can see your posts.

Why so many "fleet oilers"? It seems like too many for the amount of warships that are being deployed, especially when they have a port available to them.

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Gollevainen

It seems that Lociz cannot see his own post but the rest of us can. Again none is removing the post deliberatly, its merely a technical issue.

But the same post is now posted at least three times already so despite that you are not able to see it yourself, please don't post it again, it eats the bandwith for no reason.

Please contact Webmaster becouse he is the only one that can fix the thing. Also have you tried to post in other threads?

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Lociz

Thank you popeye for fixing my posts. I am sorry for "spamming" the forum with several posts with same text. Dont know what the problem was. I could see my posts in the thread immediately after i posted, but some minutes later they was removed in some way..
About the number of fleet oilers. Remember Kuznetsov is not nuclear powered, and this is a long voyage. I think they are trying to make use of theyr entire fleet, this is maybe exercise related just to make sure al the lines of supply are working and that the different fleet can work together. Kuznetsov also uses alot of fresh water for her boilers. And about the Tugs beeing used who all are talking about, it is not unusual to bring large tugs or salvage vessels, the american also do, but you dont see anyone talk about it. The tugs can follow the combatant group from distance, I dont think many of them have enough speed anyway.

Pointblank

You don't need that many oilers. The larger conventional USN carrier groups didn't need that many oilers to deploy halfway around the world.

bd popeye

True..Appears to be a logistical problem for the Russians.

The USN has only one conventional CV left in it's inventory. The USS Kitty Hawk CV-63. The USN usally has only one oiler or AOE etc in a CSG(Carrier strike group).

The USN has salvage ships pre-positioned in case they are needed. No fleet tugs follow USN ships. In fact the USN contracts out for tugs in the US and overseas.

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Lociz

You are probably right. 5 oilers seems alot. The only reason must be to test lines of supply between the three fleets. The Olekma class is the only tanker with fresh water tanks, the Kuznetsov needs distilled water for her boilers.

Hope too see some nice pictures from the Med.
Found an interesting note about the 1995/1996 deployment:
Source: http://www.cedarsrevolution.net/jtph...d=463&Itemid=2
" In january 1996, the Russian Navy aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov came very close to israeli territorial waters. On january 27, it launched severeal advanced Su-33 fighters, the naval version of the Su-27. The jets ventured into Israeli air space near Haifa. IAF planes were scrambled to intercept, but a skirmish was avoided."

And some info about the US Navy supplying water to Kuznetsov: http://www.afpc.org/rrm/rrm90.htm
"The Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, steaming toward the Adriatic sea to support Moscow's 2000-man force in Bosnia, is saved from aborting its mission when the Clinton administration ordered the U.S. Navy to send an emergency supply of fresh water for the nearly 2000 crewmen aboard, the Washington Times reports. "This deployment is a very big deal for the Russian navy," according to analyst Norman Polmar. The Kuznetsov's success on its first Mediterranean cruise is seen as crucial, because it could secure funding for completion of a second carrier, the Varyag. Without the water, the Kuznetsov would have to head for port.

"I would think that having them [the Kuznetsov] in the Adriatic at this time would be an absolute nightmare" for NATO, whose forces already have five aircraft carrier groups there, says Jane's Fighting Ships editor Cmdr. Richard Sharpe. "NATO has enough problems there. If you add a Russian carrier, you have a recipe for considerable trouble."

Nezavisimaya Gazeta reports that President Yeltsin signed an order to authorize the assassination of top Chechen military leaders. State security issues a denial."

Can one of the moderators pls contact webmaster about this thread. I dont understand why i sometimes cant see my posts. Now i get message about duplicate posts etc. I even tryed on a different computer at work, and still cant see my posts, even if I dont log in. I cant see how this could be my mistake then. Tryed to contact webmaster through forum contact scheme, but no reply for days now.

Gollevainen

I haven't seen him (webmaster) either for few days.

But indeed the proplems seems to continue and there have been indications that they are not just in this thread. However I at least can see your post. I will try to contact webmaster imidiately.

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Lociz

I am wondering if the problem is long posts..? If if post a message with lets say 20 lines of text, the message gets lost in system. if I write short messages in the "quick reply" field everything is ok. If i use the advanced section to post, i get a message that it will be published as soon as soon as site admin has reviewd my post

You are probably right. 5 oilers seems alot. The only reason must be to
test lines of supply between the three fleets. The Olekma class is the only
tanker with fresh water tanks, the Kuznetsov needs distilled water for her
boilers.

Hope too see some nice pictures from the Med

Found an interesting note about the 1995/1996 deployment:
Source:
http://www.cedarsrevolution.net/jtph...tent&task=view
&id=463&Itemid=2
" In january 1996, the Russian Navy aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov came
very close to israeli territorial waters. On january 27, it launched
severeal advanced Su-33 fighters, the naval version of the Su-27. The jets
ventured into Israeli air space near Haifa. IAF planes were scrambled to
intercept, but a skirmish was avoided."

And some info about the US Navy supplying water to Kuznetsov:
http://www.afpc.org/rrm/rrm90.htm
"The Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov, steaming toward the
Adriatic sea to support Moscow's 2000-man force in Bosnia, is saved from
aborting its mission when the Clinton administration ordered the U.S. Navy
to send an emergency supply of fresh water for the nearly 2000 crewmen
aboard, the Washington Times reports. "This deployment is a very big deal
for the Russian navy," according to analyst Norman Polmar. The Kuznetsov's
success on its first Mediterranean cruise is seen as crucial, because it
could secure funding for completion of a second carrier, the Varyag.
Without the water, the Kuznetsov would have to head for port.

Pointblank

Shouldn't any naval vessel be equipped with distillation gear to distill water for boilers and for general crew usage? Furthermore, most naval warships that still use steam boilers have condensers as well to condense the steam back into water. Isn't the Admiral K. equipped with either?

bd popeye

I'm sure she was orginally equipped with the correct distallation plants..But those things do wear out and do suffer from lack of use and poor maintaince.

Trust me a lack of water onboard CV's has occuried manytimes in the USN back when most CVs were conventionally powered.

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Lociz

Looks like they made it to the Med. Port visit in Tunis http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2....2250&PageNum=0