SinoDefence Forum

Finn McCool · 08-08-2008

Quote:

Heavy fighting in South Ossetia

Night-time pictures of heavy shelling

Georgian forces and South Ossetian separatists have been exchanging heavy fire just hours after agreeing to a ceasefire and Russian-mediated talks.

Russian media reports said Georgia had launched a tank-led attack on the separatist stronghold of Tskhinvali, and airstrikes on rebel positions.

Georgia says it aims to finish "a criminal regime" and restore order.

At least 15 people are reported dead. Moscow called on the world community to work "to avert massive bloodshed".

At Russia's request, members of the UN Security Council are holding a rare emergency session to discuss a response to the escalating violence.

The BBC's Matthew Collin in Tbilisi says there has been a series of huge explosions and rocket fire in and around Tskhinvali.

Hundreds of fighters from Russia and Georgia's other breakaway region of Abkhazia are reportedly heading to aid the separatist troops.

'Perfidious step'

South Ossetian rebel leader Eduard Kokoity told Russia's Interfax news agency that Georgia had launched an all-out attack on the town of Tskhinvali, in what he called "a perfidious and base step".

Caucasus on alert
Clashes reignite war fears
The head of Georgian peacekeepers in South Ossetia said the operation was intended to "restore constitutional order" to the region.

The Georgian Minister for Integration, Temur Yakobashvili, said Georgia's aim was not to take over the territory but to finish "a criminal regime".

Days of fierce conflict have raised fears of a new war in the volatile Caucasus.

In a televised address, Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili earlier called for the bloodshed to end, but also warned the Russian-backed separatists not to try Tbilisi's patience.

A truce was later announced, with emergency talks set for Friday, but by nightfall, both sides were trading heavy fire.

Georgia accuses Russia of arming the South Ossetian authorities - who have been trying to break away since the civil war in the 1990s. Moscow denies the claim.

President Saakashvili has vowed to restore Tbilisi's control over South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

The Ossetians have traditionally had good relations with Russia, and North Ossetia is part of the Russian Federation.

Russia is hostile to Georgia's ambition to join Nato and has accused Georgia of building up its forces around the breakaway regions, where Russian peacekeeping troops are deployed.

The Georgian Army is launching a full offensive against the seperatist enclave of South Ossetia. The fighting centers on the town of Tshkinvali for now.
Russia has called an emergency meeting of the Security Council which indicates to me they will not rescue South Ossetia. Abkhazia seems to be the redline for the Russians.

Finn McCool · 08-08-2008

The Georgians have made quick progress.

Quote:

Georgia surrounds rebel capital

Georgian jets attack separatists in South Ossetia

Georgian troops are nearing the capital of the separatist region of South Ossetia after a night of heavy shelling and air strikes on rebel positions.

...

From the BBC.

Finn McCool · 08-08-2008

Quote:

[Georgia announces full military mobilization 4 minutes ago

TBILISI, Georgia - Georgia's president is announcing a full military mobilization as Georgian troops have moved to regain control over the separatist province of South Ossetia.

Mikhail Saakasvhili says in a televized statement that his government will be calling up reservists as fighting is continuing to rage in South Ossetia's capital.

The move comes as the United Nations Security Council failed to agree early Friday morning on a statement drafted by Russia that would have called on Georgia and its separatist region in South Ossetia to immediately put down their arms.

The Georgians are serious about finishing this fight quickly before too many Russian "volunteers" can join the fight.

From AP.

Jeff Head · 08-08-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finn McCool

The Georgians are serious about finishing this fight quickly before too many Russian "volunteers" can join the fight.

From AP.

Russian jets have apparently become involved and bombed a Georgia airbase:

Russian Jets Bomb Georgia Air Base - http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L8690622.htm

I have since heard that Georgia has shot down a number of Russian jets and that a Russian column of tanks is moving into Georgia.

This is not good. There are US troops in Georgia as we speak training the Georgian forces.

This has very ugly potential and I hope and pray it can be quelled before it goes there.

Jeff Head · 08-08-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finn McCool

The Georgians have made quick progress.

From the BBC.

CNN Now showing pictures of Russian tanks rolling toards Georgia.

Very disturbing and very ugly potential here.

CNN Story HERE

bd popeye · 08-08-2008

Here are some photos I just posted in another military forum. This situation could become very very bad.

Quote:

In these images, made from television, Russian military vehicles are moving towards the breakaway South Ossetia republic's capital, Tskhinvali, on Friday, Aug. 8, 2008. Russia's Defense Ministry says it has sent reinforcements to its peacekeepers deployed to South Ossetia to help end bloodshed. Georgian officials confirmed that the Russian convoy had crossed the border and was advancing toward Tskhinvali. Georgia launched a massive attack Friday to regain control over South Ossetia, using heavy artillery, aircraft and armor. South Ossetian officials said at least 15 people were killed Friday and an unspecified number were wounded.

Quote:

Russian aircraft attacks a Georgian position near the city of Tskhinvali, 100 km (62 miles) from Tbilisi, August 8, 2008. Georgia's interior ministry said three Russian jets entered Georgian airspace and "dropped bombs" at two locations just south of breakaway South Ossetia, where fighting raged on Friday.

Quote:

Georgian troops move towards the South Ossetian border in an unknown location in Georgia on August 7, 2008.

Quote:

In this image, made from television, what Russian Channel 1 claims, a convoy of Georgian troops moving towards Tskhinvali in the South Ossetian enclave in Georgia on Friday, Aug. 8, 2008. Georgian troops launched a major military offensive Friday to regain control over the breakaway province of South Ossetia, prompting a furious response from Russia, which vowed retaliation and sent tanks into the region.

Quote:

Georgian troops ride in armoured personnel carriers during the conflict with separatist South Ossetian troops at an unnamed location not far from Tskhinvali on August 8, 2008. Georgia is taking measures to prevent Russian "mercenaries" from infiltrating the country, its prime minister said as Georgian forces attacked the Russian-backed breakaway province of South Ossetia.

Quote:

In this picture made off APTN video footage, Georgian multiple rocket launchers are seen at a position south of Tskhinvali, Friday morning, Aug. 8, 2008. The capital of Georgia's separatist region of South Ossetia came under heavy fire early Friday, just hours after Georgia's president declared a unilateral cease-fire.

Quote:

Georgian artillary troops fire at seperatist South Ossetian troops from an unnamed location not far from Tskhinvali on August 8, 2008.

Quote:

A Russian NTV channel television grab shows Georgian helicopters engaging separatist South Ossetian troops over an unnamed location not far from Tskhinvali on August 8, 2008. Georgia is taking measures to prevent Russian "mercenaries" from infiltrating the country, Georgian Prime Minister Lado Gurgenidze said as Georgian forces attacked the Russian-backed breakaway province of South Ossetia.

Quote:

In this image, made from television screen, what Russian First Channel claims - are burning Georgian armored vehicles are seen in Tskhinvali in the South Ossetian breakaway region of Georgia on Friday, Aug. 8, 2008.

Jeff Head · 08-08-2008

WOW! Unbelievable images and a very serios, deadly situation with huge potential for escalation both there, and in the entire surrounding region.

Hopefully, seriuos, direct negotiations can lead to a quick cease fire and pull back.

But with that amount of resource already committed and fighting ongoing...both sides will want to make sure any such cease fire favors them...which means it is much harder to arrange.

Finn McCool · 08-08-2008

Well I just read that Georgia is recalling it's contingent of 2000 troops from Iraq. It seems to me that the Russians have two choices. They can try to recapture Tshkinvali, or they can do that AND press the attack, into Georgian territory.

The Georgian Air Force is in mortal peril in the next few hours/days. If the Russians want to sweep them from the sky, they could. The Mig-25 seems to be their only dedicated air-to-air platform, and they only have 18 of them.

Neutral Zone · 08-08-2008

A very serious situation. Everyone is familiar with Checneya but there are a number of conflicts in the former USSR that have been suppressed but not formally ended like Abkhazia, Trans-Dniester and Nagorno-Karabakh, it was perhaps inevitable that one of them was going to flare up in a major way. Common sense needs to prevail here and quick, Georgia is the site for a major oil pipeline, the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, which is the main export route for oil from Azerbaijan to the West. Prolonged conflict could send oil prices soaring, although there are a lot of national interests and pride at stake here I doubt that there is much appetite in Washington and Moscow for a direct military confrontation.

I don't mean to make light of a serious situation but the cynic in me can't help but think that the timing of this might have something to do with today's events in Beijing.

SampanViking · 08-08-2008

IMHO not only very cynical timing by the Georgians but also a serious miscalculation. By crossing the South Ossetia border, they have given the Russians a genuine Casus Belli and now the fighting has started they have nothing to lose (and much to gain) by pushing all the way to Tbilisi and installing a pro Kremlin regime and thwart US ambitions in the Caucuses probably forever.

Is Georgia counting on US aid or direct military assistance? I really dont see it as big powers never face off directly. It looks as though Georgia has been a gamble and one that has'nt paid off.

This could potentially though still be a side show and a close eye on the Ukraine is strongly recommended!

Sargon · 08-08-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SampanViking

IMHO not only very cynical timing by the Georgians but also a serious miscalculation. By crossing the South Ossetia border, they have given the Russians a genuine Casus Belli and now the fighting has started they have nothing to lose (and much to gain) by pushing all the way to Tbilisi and installing a pro Kremlin regime and thwart US ambitions in the Caucuses probably forever.

Is Georgia counting on US aid or direct military assistance? I really dont see it as big powers never face off directly. It looks as though Georgia has been a gamble and one that has'nt paid off.

This could potentially though still be a side show and a close eye on the Ukraine is strongly recommended!

Ukraine has already lent vocal support to Georgia by calling on Russia to pull out of Georgia.

http://www.unian.net/eng/news/news-266149.html

Quote:

[08.08.2008 20:49] Ukraine calls on Russia to pull out its troops from Georgia

Ukraine calls on the Russian Federation, a permanent member of the UN Security Council, to pull out its troops from the territory of Georgia. This is said in the statement of the Foreign Ministry of Ukraine forwarded to UNIAN.

“Ukraine is anxious having received the information that the conflict in the South Ossetia (Georgia) has developed into a new phase with involving the military potential of the third party”, the document reads. "Unfortunately, the information from the site indicates that the Russian Federation, which had played a role of intermediary since a long time, is gradually becoming a side of the conflict. The Foreign Ministry of Ukraine believes that it may aggravate the situation even more, with broadening the conflict`s geography and turning it into a regional one with unpredictable consequences”.

“Ukraine calls on the Russian Federation, as permanent member of the UN Security Council, to pull out its troops from Georgia, to be reserved in its actions, and to exert the necessary influence upon the separatist regime of Tskhinvali in order to return to the bargaining table. A prerequisite of successful talks will be an immediate cease of fire, confirmation of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia by the Russian side, devotion to principles of good neighborhood, refusal from strong-arm scenarios and peaceful settlement of conflicts, the statement reads.

Ukraine, expressing its deep concern about the situation in the conflict area, is considering ways to solve it through opportunities of mediation, good services, international organizations, and other countries. In its turn, Ukraine is ready to make its contribution into these efforts, the document read.

This looks like war to me. Seriously though, I don't see how Georgia thought they could win against Russia's against massive Russian military superiority. Their only hope is to wait it out and hope Russia gets tired of it and pulls out (which would take some time). IMO ,Huge miscalculation.

Costas 240GD · 08-08-2008

Other than the really underhanded and sinister choise of timing, the violation of ceasefire agreements and attacking, among others, Russian peacekeepers gives Russia a perfect excuse to intervene militarily. I suppose the goal of the intervention will be to restore the status quo ante in South Ossetia, but in the meantime Shaakashvili's antics could well mean that he's asking to get his country's infrastructure bombed to the stone age.
And if the Georgians are counting on active US and other support, they can forget it.
Hopefully, as enough blood has been shed already, the situation will be defused in a short time.

Finn McCool · 08-08-2008

I think that the Georgians thought that the Russians would "let it slide" if they attacked and quickly captured South Ossetia. It was clear that Abkhazia meant more to the Russians. I think Sakashvili thought that they could get away with it, which is obviously a major miscaluclation in light of recent events.

I hope no US troops are killed, because there are several thousand based in Georgia. If they are, things will take an incredibly dangerous turn.

There is a lesson in this for China. Don't attack a seperatist territory that has the explict backing of a major power!

Sargon · 08-08-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finn McCool

There is a lesson in this for China. Don't attack a seperatist territory that has the explict backing of a major power!

I was thinking the same thing when reading about this conflict. While South Ossetia is certainly no Taiwan, China will still be watching to see how things turn out and take note. I read somewhere that ever since kosovo's independence, states with break-away regions have become more tense and worried that similar "separatist" states have become more confident to declare independence. But at any rate this is venturing a little into

alopes · 08-08-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finn McCool

I think that the Georgians thought that the Russians would "let it slide" if they attacked and quickly captured South Ossetia. It was clear that Abkhazia meant more to the Russians. I think Sakashvili thought that they could get away with it, which is obviously a major miscaluclation in light of recent events.

I hope no US troops are killed, because there are several thousand based in Georgia. If they are, things will take an incredibly dangerous turn.

There is a lesson in this for China. Don't attack a seperatist territory that has the explict backing of a major power!

Then what,

what USA will gonna do against Russia, if Russia attacks Georgia in retaliation from Georgia attack.

If USA choose badly its allys and allow its allies kill Russians with their weapons,

what USA will gonna do against Russia.

Tell me becuase i want to know what USa will do against Russia.

If i was the Russian General, we would have thousands of missiles landing in Georgias

as USA launched thousands of missiles against Afghanistan.

If China want, really to get Taiwan with weapons, which isn´t their option, they would make ten thousand nuclear weapons as Russia and

then what,

what USA will gonna do/

Tell me...

SinoDefence Forum

Russia Vs Georgia..a widening crisis!

Russia Vs Georgia..a widening crisis!

DefenceTalk Military Pictures

Similar Threads

vBulletin Tweet Poster