Possible Indonesian purchase of Subs from PRC

**adeptitus** · 01-31-2006, 03:42 PM

I'm curious to know which subs the PRC offered and at what price? Couple of years ago there was rumors that Indonesian government wanted to purchase 4 submarines from S. Korea for $270 million each, but the deal did not happen.

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http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publ...cle_004779.php

Indonesia Mulls Submarine Purchase
AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Wed, 25 Jan 2006, 12:01

Indonesia is considering buying submarines from Russia, South Korea and China under a plan to acquire 12 of them before 2024, the navy said Jan. 25.

”We have received offers from several countries, including Russia. If we can buy them at cheaper prices, why not? We don’t want to depend on one country,” said navy spokesman First Admiral Malik Yusuf.

South Korea and China have also made similar offers, he said.

Yusuf said Indonesia’s capability to defend its waters remained weak due to a lack of submarines, frigates and corvettes. The navy currently operates two German-made submarines.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono plans to visit Russia in June to discuss defense cooperation and the purchase of more Sukhoi fighter jets from Moscow.

The country has four Sukhoi jets bought by the previous administration.

Indonesia embarked on a hunt for new arms suppliers after the United States imposed restrictions on military sales and cooperation due to concerns about rights abuses committed by the Indonesian armed forces in East Timor in 1991.

The United States, eager for Indonesia’s assistance in the “war on terror”, lifted the arms restrictions and resumed full military ties last November.

**crazyinsane105** · 01-31-2006, 04:11 PM

There are some rumors going around that Pakistan and France may try to capture part of that deal. Pakistan may offer Indonesia Agosta 90B subs upgraded by the France that would be built in Karachi so the price would be much cheaper. However, these are just rumors and nothing concrete.

Which Chinese sub would Indonesia want to get? I think the only available one would be an upgraded Song Class sub. Forget the Yuan because there are only two in the PLAN right now and there hasn't been any reports of the Chinese trying to market the Yuan.

**tphuang** · 01-31-2006, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by crazyinsane105

There are some rumors going around that Pakistan and France may try to capture part of that deal. Pakistan may offer Indonesia Agosta 90B subs upgraded by the France that would be built in Karachi so the price would be much cheaper. However, these are just rumors and nothing concrete.

Which Chinese sub would Indonesia want to get? I think the only available one would be an upgraded Song Class sub. Forget the Yuan because there are only two in the PLAN right now and there hasn't been any reports of the Chinese trying to market the Yuan.

It would have to be Song. Of course, China could work with the West to try to get Western electronics. But as of now, Song already uses French control system I think. Anyhow, Song is definitely not as advanced as Kilo or Amur, so it will be interesting to see what the Chinese does to try to win this bid.

**crazyinsane105** · 01-31-2006, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by tphuang

It would have to be Song. Of course, China could work with the West to try to get Western electronics. But as of now, Song already uses French control system I think. Anyhow, Song is definitely not as advanced as Kilo or Amur, so it will be interesting to see what the Chinese does to try to win this bid.

Even if China gets half the contract that could mark a massive success. Maybe China COULD offer the Yuan with advanced Western electronics (if that is possible). In the end, it is about forging new allies and making money.

**MIGleader** · 02-01-2006, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by tphuang

It would have to be Song. Of course, China could work with the West to try to get Western electronics. But as of now, Song already uses French control system I think. Anyhow, Song is definitely not as advanced as Kilo or Amur, so it will be interesting to see what the Chinese does to try to win this bid.

perhaps the PRC will offer the songs more cheaply, or offer more deals with the main tender, such as weapons, service, training, and diplomatic relations. This combo never failed the russians, and it wont fail the PRC

**tphuang** · 02-01-2006, 06:43 PM

well, I just read that the Koreans will be offering u-209. So, this is between Kilo, U-209 and Song. I guess Song is at a disdvantage in terms of noise level. China will have to offer better missile packages, payment terms and such.

**MIGleader** · 02-02-2006, 04:11 PM

I dont think the kilo will make it. It controls arnt so great. Perhaps the plan could share stories with the indonesians about the poor performance of early kilos in the PLAN.

Its not too hard for the chinese to out-do the koreans in terms of price. AIP included?

**swimmerXC** · 02-02-2006, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by MIGleader

I dont think the kilo will make it. It controls arnt so great. Perhaps the plan could share stories with the indonesians about the poor performance of early kilos in the PLAN.

Its not too hard for the chinese to out-do the koreans in terms of price. AIP included?

The only reason the early Kilos had poor performance was because of the inexprience for the Chinese Crew
Here's your proof

However the first two 877EKM (364, 365) subs were reportedly to have suffered mechanical problems (damaged batteries and generators) caused by the inexperienced crew, and were inoperational for several months.

Source

**MIGleader** · 02-02-2006, 05:52 PM

I know that!!!! thats the part of the story the chinese arnt supposed to tell the indonesians!!!

They are supposed to make the kilo look like a bad submarine, based on experience. Do you think anyone ever won a tender by being honest?