Page 1 of 44 123456113141 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 648
Like Tree778Likes

New low-cost, muti-role aircraft needed for smaller militaries

This is a discussion on New low-cost, muti-role aircraft needed for smaller militaries within the World Armed Forces forums, part of the World Strategic Defence Area category; In a separate speech via Internet radio the New Defense minister announced that the Mirage III and Neshers would be ...

  1. #1
    Miragedriver's Avatar
    Miragedriver is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    In a state of bliss with my two sons
    Posts
    989

    New low-cost, muti-role aircraft needed for smaller militaries

    In a separate speech via Internet radio the New Defense minister announced that the Mirage III and Neshers would be expected to continue flying until 2016. However, in that speech no mention was made about finding a replacement. With more and more of the meticulusly kept Mirage III’s falling from the sky due to airfram fatige there are limited choses for a replacement

    The only choices I foresee could be:

    1) JAS-39 Gripen, but it has British Avionics/Radar, and they own an interest in Saab so that eliminates the JAS-39

    2) The F-35 is completely unaffordable.

    3) The SU-30 and Mig-29 was rejected because it’s Russian. However, atitudes are changing.

    4) The F-18 was rejected because it has two engines. This a poor excuse since Spain puchased some additional F-18 from desert storage for around 10 million each (with extra engines to boot).

    5) The F-16 was rejected because of runway debris (an unlikely story. The English were concerned that Argentina could have an American Aircraft with BVR AMRAAM).

    6) The Rafale was rejected because there would be no technology transfer and it’s too expensive.

    7) The J-10 could be an option with the insertion of Israeli avionics and radar.

    8) The Spanish Mirage F-1’s were rejected because of the airframe fatigue.

    9) The Jordanian Mirage F-1’s (that deal has been draged out way too long and is now DOA)

    10) Which leaves us with the Mirage 2000, but nobody will sell them since they’re still useful.

    The other option is to purchase some used Mig’s form Russia. Sir Lanka purchased Mig-27 from Ukrain for under 3 million each with an eight year (2500 hour) overhaul guarenty. See article LankaWeb News

    I would like to get the opionion of Sino Defence members as to what interceptor aircraft would be most feasable and also maintainable. I have my thoughts, but I’ll save them for the repleys.
    Last edited by Jeff Head; 02-10-2014 at 05:52 PM. Reason: New name.

  2. #2
    siegecrossbow's Avatar
    siegecrossbow is offline Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Posts
    2,775

    Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

    Judging from your reasoning the only choices are Russian and Chinese fighters. Since this forum is called sino-defence what plane do you think most people will recommend?

    Why J-10 with Israelis avionics and radar?
    Miragedriver likes this.
    Please visit http://www.chinesedefence.com/forums/f17/thread-translated-articles-658/ for translated Chinese military articles, news, and forum posts.

  3. #3
    Lion is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,146

    Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

    FC-1.. You can buy up to 100 of them and I bet ToT is no problem..

    2billion for 100 pieces.. Not bad huh.
    SteelBird likes this.

  4. #4
    Red___Sword is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    823

    Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

    Quote Originally Posted by siegecrossbow View Post
    Judging from your reasoning the only choices are Russian and Chinese fighters. Since this forum is called sino-defence what plane do you think most people will recommend?

    Why J-10 with Israelis avionics and radar?
    In the contrary, if by the thread title "new interceptor" - I am not sure J-10 is up to the job. But by the comparison list, I guess the "interceptor" is a "job title" for Argentine AF, not a technical term.

    Anyway, officially, there was no word that J-10 is out for export market yet.

    Edit:

    Yeah, I agree with Lion.

  5. #5
    siegecrossbow's Avatar
    siegecrossbow is offline Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Posts
    2,775

    Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red___Sword View Post
    In the contrary, if by the thread title "new interceptor" - I am not sure J-10 is up to the job. But by the comparison list, I guess the "interceptor" is a "job title" for Argentine AF, not a technical term.

    Anyway, officially, there was no word that J-10 is out for export market yet.

    Edit:

    Yeah, I agree with Lion.
    J-10 is well suited for the interception role. What are you talking about?
    Please visit http://www.chinesedefence.com/forums/f17/thread-translated-articles-658/ for translated Chinese military articles, news, and forum posts.

  6. #6
    Mr T's Avatar
    Mr T is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    U.K.
    Posts
    825

    Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

    I would agree that Chinese and Russian planes would be the only option right now. But I'm not sure whether Argentina has the money to buy more than a handful anyway. It may be that Argentina will just have to rely on the A-4s and, to be fair, does Argentina even need modern new fighters? I mean, where's the threat from?

  7. #7
    T-U-P's Avatar
    T-U-P is offline The Punisher
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,270

    Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr T View Post
    I would agree that Chinese and Russian planes would be the only option right now. But I'm not sure whether Argentina has the money to buy more than a handful anyway. It may be that Argentina will just have to rely on the A-4s and, to be fair, does Argentina even need modern new fighters? I mean, where's the threat from?
    Even if there is no threat currently, it doesn't mean a nation shouldn't keep a modern defence force. After all, buying equipments, getting those equipments delivered, and training on them takes a long long time. By the time a threat emerges, it would be too late if you are unprepared ahead of time.
    bd popeye likes this.

  8. #8
    Jeff Head's Avatar
    Jeff Head is offline Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Idaho - Beautiful Rocky Mountains
    Posts
    9,232

    Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr T View Post
    I would agree that Chinese and Russian planes would be the only option right now. But I'm not sure whether Argentina has the money to buy more than a handful anyway. It may be that Argentina will just have to rely on the A-4s and, to be fair, does Argentina even need modern new fighters? I mean, where's the threat from?
    A new squabble over the Falkland Islands (Malvinas) could occurr almost anytime. The Argentines have a lot of pride regarding that...despite their loss to the UK last time around. Particulary now that the UK is in a gap of no fixed wing carrier capability for several years.

    In fact, in a joint communiqué issued by the Brazilian and Argentine governments in August 2010, "the President of the Federative Republic of Brazil reiterated the support of his country to the legitimate rights of Argentina in the sovereignty dispute regarding the Falkland Islands, South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands and the surrounding maritime areas". So that issue is still there and could be acted on at anytime. Hopefully not...but the Agrentines have not relinquished or given up their claims and the Brazillians support them in it.
    Kurt likes this.

  9. #9
    i.e. is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,303

    Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

    J-10 also has a "runway debris" problem, given its chin intake.

    FC-1 would be my choice,

    can shoot AshMs,
    can shoot BVRAAMs,
    can dogfight.

    pretty much can replace all fast jet combat types in Argentina's inventory and wouldn't break the bank.

    awesome.
    Bltizo and antiterror13 like this.

  10. #10
    nosh is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    166

    Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

    Quote Originally Posted by i.e. View Post
    J-10 also has a "runway debris" problem, given its chin intake.

    FC-1 would be my choice,

    can shoot AshMs,
    can shoot BVRAAMs,
    can dogfight.

    pretty much can replace all fast jet combat types in Argentina's inventory and wouldn't break the bank.

    awesome.
    Argentina needs fighter to face the Eurofighters UK stationed in Falkland Islands. Its requirement is similar to Pakistan's to counter MMCA. FC-1 has no chance. An improved J-10 (with better engine) is possible.

  11. #11
    i.e. is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,303

    Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

    Quote Originally Posted by nosh View Post
    Argentina needs fighter to face the Eurofighters UK stationed in Falkland Islands. Its requirement is similar to Pakistan's to counter MMCA. FC-1 has no chance. An improved J-10 (with better engine) is possible.
    one don't need to match the opposing figher 1 to 1 to effectively surppress them.

    get something that can face Typhoons in a2a you need a bigger bank account.

    J-10 with upgrade still need some help defeating phoons in a pure a2a scenario.

    waves of FC-1 with riple fire SD-10s and awacs and jammers!

  12. #12
    Jeff Head's Avatar
    Jeff Head is offline Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Idaho - Beautiful Rocky Mountains
    Posts
    9,232

    Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

    Quote Originally Posted by nosh View Post
    Argentina needs fighter to face the Eurofighters UK stationed in Falkland Islands. Its requirement is similar to Pakistan's to counter MMCA. FC-1 has no chance. An improved J-10 (with better engine) is possible.
    The UK keeps 4 Eurofighters stationed at the RAF Mount Pleasant Air Field (built after the War) in the Falkland Isands at all times. The Air Base also has a port facility and usually one Offshare Patrol Vessel (currently the P257 HMS Clyde) is stationed there permanently, and a Type 42 DDG is rotated in and out.

    To counter that the Argentines have one Type 42 DDG of their own, and four, smaller MEKO 360H2 destroyers (really frigates IMHO), along with 6 Meko 140A16 Corvettes and three Drummon Corvettes and three fairly modern SSks, which would have to counter an almost certain UK SSN which would get there as quickly as possible. In addition, the Argentine Air Force consists of 6 Mirage 5's and 6 IA1 Finger (Mirage 5 derivative from Israel), along with 8 or 9 Mirage 3s to use as fighters. These may overwhelm the four Eurofighters...but the UK would send back a lot more and I do not think the currrent Argentine Air Force (unless they got help from Brazil) could not hold them off unless they procure quite a few more advanced fighters to hold the air when the counter attack came.

    The Argentines would have to overwhelm the UK forces with their own and then, as I said, establish and maintain air dominance as the UK would surely respond with aircraft staging out of Ascension Island and Wideawake Airfield there with aerial refueling.

    It may not seem likely, but earlier this year, Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina showed solidarity in not allowing the HMS Clyde to dock (Brazil refused her in Rio) on the mainland because of continuing disagreements over this issue and the UKs use of resource (particulalry oil) as a result of it.

    I hope it does not happen, and do not believe the UK would back down...but with no carrier availability, if it is going to happen, it would probably take place some time before the new Queen Elizabeth comes on line.
    Last edited by Jeff Head; 07-23-2012 at 11:50 PM.

  13. #13
    Mr T's Avatar
    Mr T is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    U.K.
    Posts
    825

    Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

    Quote Originally Posted by T-U-P View Post
    Even if there is no threat currently, it doesn't mean a nation shouldn't keep a modern defence force. After all, buying equipments, getting those equipments delivered, and training on them takes a long long time. By the time a threat emerges, it would be too late if you are unprepared ahead of time.
    That's a very fair point, an argument I've made myself in the past - doh!

    Quote Originally Posted by nosh View Post
    Argentina needs fighter to face the Eurofighters UK stationed in Falkland Islands.
    Assuming that Argentina wants to keep the right to launch an attack on the Falklands! Really I'd hope that, whether or they still hope for gaining the islands peacefully, they've moved on from the idea of trying to grab them by force. Not that I would want this to happen, but if it came to it sub-launched Tomohawks could cause misery for Argentina.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Head View Post
    It may not seem likely, but earlier this year, Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina showed solidarity in not allowing the HMS Clyde to dock (Brazil refused her in Rio) on the mainland because of continuing disagreements over this issue and the UKs use of resource (particulalry oil) as a result of it.
    South America could offer Argentina all the diplomatic support it wanted, but there's always Chile! And I think that after all the British personnel that have died in Afghanistan and Iraq the British people would expect the US to help out in some practical fashion.
    Red___Sword likes this.

  14. #14
    montyp165 is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    575

    Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

    If Brazil gets Rafales for instance, it may be worthwhile for Argentina to do the same to simplify support issues and allow for more thorough cross-training.

  15. #15
    siegecrossbow's Avatar
    siegecrossbow is offline Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Posts
    2,775

    Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

    Quote Originally Posted by montyp165 View Post
    If Brazil gets Rafales for instance, it may be worthwhile for Argentina to do the same to simplify support issues and allow for more thorough cross-training.
    Didn't Brazil find the Rafale too expensive or something? I hadn't been keeping up with the tender so I don't know the latest developments.
    Please visit http://www.chinesedefence.com/forums/f17/thread-translated-articles-658/ for translated Chinese military articles, news, and forum posts.

Page 1 of 44 123456113141 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Type 081 LHD
    By Sczepan in forum Navy
    Replies: 86
    Last Post: 05-30-2012, 10:03 PM
  2. Type 96G FCS?
    By Temujin in forum Army
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-19-2010, 01:28 AM
  3. Please Help! ZTZ-99G Type-99G
    By Shalashashka in forum Army
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-05-2008, 11:27 PM
  4. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-18-2006, 09:23 PM
  5. Type 053 and Type 054
    By aiguo in forum Navy
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-09-2005, 05:57 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •