SinoDefence Forum

Originally Posted by Gollevainen

Whats the prizetag in the Korean plane? Could it be that it just a toy and someone is stating it being a real project? Is there anything to confirm that Koreans are actually developing a sthealth figter and this is what it should look?

Originally Posted by Roger604

Wow check this out. South Korea is considering whether to fund a stealth fighter program. It looks..... a lot like the pictures we've seen...... of the J-XX! I guess they can get access to US technology to help them along too.

http://www.add.re.kr/lab/movie/%BE%C...7%B3%B5%BF.wmv

http://www.add.re.kr/lab/movie/KFX201.wmv

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/7570/kfx17sw.jpg

http://img424.imageshack.us/img424/586/kfx32fc.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2205/kfx53eq.jpg

Originally Posted by adeptitus

IMO these are just stop-gap efforts in playing catch-up to the F-22 (or even F-35). To go beyond the F-22, you need stealthy unmanned combat aircraft (UCAV). Current developments include the Boeing X-35 and Dassault Neuron:
Dassault nEUROn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dassault Aviation
http://www.afcea.org/signal/articles...wer.asp?a=1019

The technology is still quite new and under development. But the advantages of unmanned air combat vehicle are many. Being unmanned, you don't need to account for pilot weight, life support, cockpit, or limitations on how many G's you can pull before the human pilot blacks out. Computer/combat AI doesn't require many years of flight training, barracks, salary, health benefits, sick leave, or retire after few years to fly 747's for more pay.

In terms of cost savings, a human pilot requires constant training to maintain his/her edge. It consumes a lot of manpower and materials, not to mention wear & tear on the aircraft. Most combat aircraft's airframe can only be used for couple thousand hours without major overhaul, much less time for engines. A UCAV, on the other hand, can sit in a canister for 10 years and only require periodic system check. The cost savings can also translate into additional UCAV's and robotic maintenance & re-arming/re-fueling stations, giving the UCAV user numerical advantage with a disposable platform.

Just as Kasparov was defeated by Deep Blue, in the future there will be no fighter jocks, only nerds (engineers, programmers) and computers.

Originally Posted by Aviation Week

Seoul Drops KFX Technology Target To Generation 4.5 | AVIATION WEEK

Seoul Drops KFX Technology Target To Generation 4.5

Sep 20, 2009


Bradley Perrett


South Korea will focus on developing a Generation-4.5 fighter under a proposed program that previously aimed at an equivalent of the fifth-generation Lockheed Martin F-35.

The government is due to decide in November whether to proceed with the program, called KFX, which industrialists hope will meet the air force’s distant F-XX fighter requirement for the 2020s.

Lockheed Martin and Boeing are battling for another prize called F-X Phase III, under which the air force proposes to buy 60 fighters next decade.

Downgrading of ambitions for KFX follows condemnation last year of the original specification from the Korea Development Institute state think tank.

An officially commissioned study from another think tank now urges that Gen-4.5 technology would meet South Korean needs.

If KFX goes ahead, the next major decision would be whether the fighter should have a new design or be an upgrade of a type already in production. Boeing, Lockheed Martin, EADS (representing Eurofighter), Saab and Korea Aerospace Industries have submitted proposals.

With this program, South Korea is facing an especially stark choice between its industrial and strategic interests.

On the one hand, it wants to maintain a fighter-development capability that it built up with the T-50 supersonic trainer.

And yet, the South Korean air force, more than many others, faces a serious military threat and needs to field the most effective equipment its budget can provide. The F-35 has attracted political support in South Korea as better value for the money than KFX and is favored by a strong lobby within the air force.

A think tank from Konkuk University says a Gen-4.5 fighter would be enough, partly because stand-off missiles make maximum stealth redundant.

Still, a Gen-4.5 fighter entering service early in the 2020s would probably have modest export prospects, which seems to minimize the chances of South Korea adopting an all-new design, even if KFX goes ahead at all.

Indeed, the F-35 might be ordered under F-X Phase III, raising the awkward possibility that South Korea could field a Gen-5 fighter in one decade and a Gen-4.5 in the following decade.

The Konkuk think tank’s KFX report was due to the government last week, but its recommendations have already been widely discussed.

The new KFX specification calls for an empty weight of 10.4 metric tons (23,000 lb.), reduced observability and either one or two engines. It would have an active electronically scanned array radar and an infrared search-and-tracking sensor.

Development cost is estimated at 5-6 trillion won ($4.1-4.9 billion) and production at 50 billion won per unit, with entry into service in 2021.

The highly stealthy KFX would have cost 10 trillion won to develop, according to the Korea Development Institute.

The report recommends that as many as 250 KFXs be built to push down the unit cost. The first 120 aircraft would replace the country’s McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantoms and Northrop F-5 Tigers. A further 130 KFXs would replace Lockheed Martin F-16C and D Block 52s.

If KFX costs $41 million a copy, South Korea might export 300-500 to countries such as Indonesia and Turkey, it suggests. Indonesia signed a letter of intent with South Korea to participate in the KFX study last March.

The proposed size of the aircraft would suit a development of the Typhoon. EADS promoted the Typhoon type to meet the earlier KFX specification, for which Saab suggested designs descended from Gripen.

Boeing said last year that the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and completely new designs were on offer for KFX. The company is pitching the F-15SE Silent Eagle, a stealthier derivative of the F-15E, as the F-X Phase III requirement but that fighter is much larger than the latest specification for KFX.

Lockheed Martin adopted a low profile when South Korea sought a Gen-5 KFX, since the aircraft would have competed with the F-35.

The air force’s more immediate requirement, F-X Phase III, is raising the same conflict between industry’s interest in getting work and the service’s interest in fielding the highest technology.

Korea Aerospace now builds the wings and forward fuselages for all F-15s, thanks to South Korea’s orders for 40 Eagles under F-X Phase I in 2002 and 21 more under Phase II. A further batch of 60, possibly including work on developing stealth aspects of the design, would therefore be highly attractive to the company.

The F-35, by contrast, would not be released for manufacturing in South Korea.

The defense ministry’s think tank, the Korea Institute for Defense Analysis, has recommended the F-15SE, but a decision is far off. The acquisition administration said in March it would not formally identify candidates until 2011 or 2012 and would then need two more years to choose the winner.

Boeing will exhaust its current F-15 order book in 2012, although Saudi Arabia may buy a further 72 Eagles (AW&ST Sept. 14, p. 22).

Originally Posted by Korea Times

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...205_52933.html

[Exclusive] Swedish Firm Probed Over Fighter Development Plan

By Jung Sung-ki
Staff Reporter

Saab, a Swedish defense firm, is being investigated here over alleged illegal lobbying of a defense research institute affiliated with the National Assembly regarding a South Korean fighter development program, sources said Monday.

Prosecutors recently raided both the firm's branch office and the headquarters of the Security Management Institute (SMI) in southern Seoul to seize documents and computer files as part of its three-month investigation into their alleged connection, the sources said.

Prosecutors have also traced the bank accounts of Saab officials and the SMI president to uncover alleged financial transactions between the two sides, they said.

SMI has served as an influential research agency regarding major South Korean arms acquisition and development programs since it was established as an advisory agency to the Assembly in 2005.

It was also designated by the Defense Acquisition Program Administration last October as an agency for studying weapons programs, cost analyses and defense technology development plans.

"The prosecution has almost completed its investigation of Saab and SMI and is closely analyzing confiscated material," a source told The Korea Times on condition of anonymity.

"It is a rare and intensive probe into a foreign defense firm and is expected to affect future arms improvement programs involving foreign manufacturers, depending on the results," he said.

Prosecutors said SMI was suspected of having offered classified information on the KF-X indigenous fighter development program to Saab or written up parliamentary documents on the KF-X partnership in favor of the Swedish company, in return for compensation.

A Saab official declined to comment on the issue, while an SMI representative denied the allegation and argued the investigation was merely a routine inspection of the parliamentary advisory institute.

"This incident may deal a blow to Saab in its ongoing and future businesses," the source said, adding the firm is considering cancelling its participation in the Seoul Air Show slated for Oct. 20 to 25.

In a related move, the Defense Security Command investigated the state-funded Agency for Defense Development earlier this year over a possible information leak to Saab, which was conducting a joint feasibility study on key arms development programs.

Saab has engaged in various weapons procurement projects in the country, such as the integration of a naval radar system and the export of its artillery-detecting radar system.

The KF-X project, aimed at creating an indigenous combat aircraft in partnership with a foreign aircraft giant to replace the Air Force's older F-4s and F-5s, has drawn proposals from major Western fighter houses.

Saab has been among the most active bidders by offering a new design for a super-cruising stealth fighter. It also asked South Korea to join its Gripen next-generation program to forge a broader fighter development partnership.

Other foreign manufactures that have shown interest in the KF-X include Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Eurofighter. The KF-X has been controversial, however, since many defense analysts see it as unviable economically and technically.

The KF-X was cut again in next year's defense budget proposals submitted by the Ministry of National Defense earlier this month.

The Weapon Systems Concept Development and Application Research Center of Konkuk University commissioned by the government to examine the feasibility of the KF-X is known to have suggested lower operational requirements for the new fighter jet.

In its interim report revealed earlier this year, the center recommended a plan to produce about 250 F-16-class fighters after 2010 with the help of foreign firms.

The center asked foreign firms about their views on the per-plane cost estimate of $50 million, as well as budget-sharing ideas and technology transfer.

In a 2007 feasibility study by a local economic policy think tank, the KF-X project was assessed as unsound economically as it would cost at least $10 billion, but would reap only $3 billion in economic benefits.

gallantjung@koreatimes.co.kr