This is a discussion on Indian military Build Up Along Chinese Border within the World Armed Forces forums, part of the World Strategic Defence Area category; India’s China-centric approach: Myths and realities By: Ashraf Javed | Published: November 12, 2011 India’s China-centric approach: Myths and realities ...
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India’s China-centric approach: Myths and realities
By: Ashraf Javed | Published: November 12, 2011
India’s China-centric approach: Myths and realities | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online
India at an estimated cost of $13 billion plans to raise a new mountain strike corps and four mountain divisions. The proposal to raise these troops was forwarded by India Army in the back drop of alleged Chinese build-up along its border with India.
Reportedly it has been cleared by Indian Defence Ministry and awaits clearance from Finance Ministry. Defending the move Indian Minister of State for Defence Pallam Raju said, “Whatever we feel there is a threat, adequate measures will be taken.”
At present Indian Eastern Command comprising 3, 4 and 33 Corps is responsible to look after the border with China, Bangladesh and Myanmar, while Central Command acts as Army Strategic Reserves and would reinforce Eastern Command in the event of war with China. Under ordinary circumstances present arrangement seems to be quite adequate. Increase of about 100,000 troops and its positioning along or deployment on Indo-China border would be an extraordinary event.
It was in December 2009 that then Indian Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor had claimed that Indian Armed Forces could fight a two front war. This assertion was made in the backdrop of warming Indo-US relations.
As a result of strategic nuclear deal between USA and India, western powers jumped on the band wagon to sell nuclear technologies. Memorandums of Understanding of billions of dollars were signed to transfer these technologies to India. For sure India needed to project itself as a state capable of taking on China to appease USA and other major powers as an implicit cost of their goodwill. To manifest this stand point India after about 61 years of independence started constructing strategic roads along its border with China.
New Delhi is building air strips and helipads at remote locations and has deployed supersonic cruse missiles “Brahmos” in the northeastern state of Arunchal Pradesh. An analysis of the concept of a two front war certainly would have revealed inadequacy of Indian forces to handle such an eventuality. It is in this backdrop that Indian Army has asked for an increase of about 100,000 men in its ranks.
Even if India manages to increase its army by this number, it will not be any match to China. But one thing is for sure, India doesn’t plan to reduce her troops from Pakistan’s border. The present disposition of Indian forces is definitely Pakistan centric.
Out of her twelve Corps eight are poised towards Pakistan while troops ex-Central Command (Army strategic reserves) would be in reinforcing role. Raising of a corps for her border with China will not change the equation much. Similarly, major deployment of Indian Air Force is also Pakistan-centric with about 22 air bases located along her western border. Ground realities clearly indicate that Indians consider Pakistan as its core rival. The rhetoric of her China centric approach lacks substance and at this point in time disposition of her forces and their capabilities doesn’t support this claim.
India is playing a dangerous game. Owing to the technological advancement wars have grown exceedingly destructive and as such cost prohibitive. These aren’t an option any more. The best way to move forward is to build trust based relations with all the nations of the world, especially with neighbours. On the contrary India is on the path of confrontation with its neighbors. New Delhi has chosen USA as her mentor and friend hopping that it will help her achieve at least a major power status. This has lent her in an awkward situation. India is in a dire need of energy resources to support her growth.
New Delhi also needs economically viable trade roots to compete in global markets. Pakistan is the only country in the world through which it can link to the proposed New Silk Route and gas pipeline network emanating from Iran and CAR.
It implies that India needs to have very good relations with Pakistan. At the first place it will not be possible till Delhi moves forward to resolve Kashmir issue and other border disputes with Pakistan. Secondly, in view of strategic relations between Pakistan and China, India will have to mend her fence with China also. One wonders as to what extent such an arrangement would be acceptable to Americans.
In view of Washington’s receding economic strength and stubborn resistance posed by Russia, China, Iran and Pakistan against US presence in Afghanistan beyond 2014 as demonstrated in Istanbul conference, it will be difficult for Americans to sustain themselves in this inhospitable country.
American exit will change regional scenario leaving India at odds. As neighbors can’t be changed it would be wise to befriend them.
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Indian Army likely to recruit one lakh (100,000)soldiers for China border
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/10573224.cms
NEW DELHI: Faced with growing Chinese military presence along the border and other complex security challenges in the region, the government is planning to increase the strength of the Indian Army by almost one lakh soldiers over the next five years.
Authoritative sources told TOI that the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has approved a Rs 64,000-crore (approximately $13 billion) military modernization plan that would include raising four new divisions along the India-China border. Two of these would be part of a Mountain Strike Corps dedicated to offensive operations. The plan also includes raising two independent brigades, one in Ladakh and the other in Uttarakhand.
Once cleared, this would be the biggest ever modernization and expansion package for the army. It would also be the largest increase in deployment along the China border seen since the immediate aftermath of the 1962 war.
Two weeks ago, MoD sent its plan to the finance ministry for scrutiny and approval, authoritative sources said. Once cleared, the proposal would be put up before the Cabinet Committee on Security for approval and financial sanction.
A senior MoD official said, under the proposal, the army will induct 90,000 more soldiers over the next five years during the 12th five-year plan period from 2012 to 2017-all of them for deployment along the China border. In the 11th Plan, the army's strength was augmented by 36,000 for two new divisions.
The proposed modernization plan includes a comprehensive overhaul and upgrade of the army's fire-power, logistical capabilities and other aspects of the China border deployment.
The army's projected requirement for ultra-light Howitzers for mountains would double, while it would also require a major addition to its helicopter capabilities, sources said.
A senior MoD source said while the proposal was focused on the India-China border, some military expansion is planned in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. At present, the army has just a brigade of soldiers in the islands. This is expected to be stepped up to the strength of a division, he said. There are also plans to increase air force and naval capabilities in Andaman and Nicobar as well as along the China border, he said.
The MoD had raised some initial concerns about the cost involved in a comprehensive military upgrade plan and the file was returned to the army headquarters a couple of months ago. But after a few rounds of consultations within the MoD, the defence acquisition council headed by minister A K Antony cleared the plan early last month, sources said.
Sources said the projected expansion budget of Rs 64,000crore includes the cost of new helipads and air strips, and also last-mile road linkages. It would also include the cost of implementing new concepts of military transformation, which are now being tested, including the capability to operate in smaller units and providing logistics in an integrated manner.
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DNA special: 114 light combat choppers to thwart any Chinese mischief
DNA special: 114 light combat choppers to thwart any Chinese mischief - India - DNA
By Pradip R Sagar | Place: New Delhi | Agency: DNA
The Indian Army does not want a 1962 repeat. It has decided to strengthen its aerial surveillance capability by inducting at least 114 Light Combat Helicopters (LCH).
China has steadily increased its military presence along its border with India over the past couple of months. In the first week of November, there were reports that the army would recruit 100,000 soldiers over the next five years and four new divisions would be raised along the Indo-Sino border. Also, the defence ministry has okayed a modernisation plan worth thousands of crores.
Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has designed the LCH; and one of the helicopters went on a maiden flight in March last year. The army believes a strong fleet of combat copters would force the dragon to think twice before it gets into a confrontation.
Traditionally, the Indian Air Force has had combat copters, but the army has decided to give more firepower to its Aviation Corps. Top ranking helicopter pilots have already been deputed to oversee the project, a senior officer said.
“We would be better equipped to meet the challenges on the eastern front once we have these 114 LCHs,” he said. “We all know that China has increased its military strength substantially in the border areas.” The LCHs will have anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM).
Apart from raising four new divisions, the army has planned to deploy two independent armoured brigades in Uttarakhand and Ladakh. The cabinet committee on security will have to approve the proposal.
All is not quiet on the western front: The army does not want to take any chances with Pakistan on its western border. Every few days, some Lashkar-e-Taiba operatives are arrested. Often during interrogations, they reveal that they have been trained in Pakistan.
So, the army has decided to deploy air-to-air and anti-tank missiles in the western sector, another officer said. Advance Light Helicopters (ALH), known as Rudra, has been fitted with 20mm turret guns, 70mm rockets and ATGMs; the induction of these copters is in the final stages, he said. Though he refused to detail the timeframe, he said, “Rudra will enable field commanders to go on the offensive at critical times anywhere in the battlefield.”
The army now has 250 helicopters. It wants to induct 197
Light Observation Helicopters to replace its ageing “Cheetahs” and “Chetaks” — at present these serve as observation copters.
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Eyeing China, India to enter ICBM club in 3 months
Eyeing China, India to enter ICBM club in 3 months - Times Of India
The countdown has begun. Within three months, India will gatecrash the super-exclusive ICBM (inter-continental ballistic missile) club, largely the preserve of countries like the US, Russia and China that brandish long-range strategic missiles with strike ranges well beyond 5,500 km.
However, it will become a full-fledged member of the club only when its most ambitious nuclear-capable Agni-V ballistic missile, which will be able to target even northern China if required, becomes fully operational in 2014.
Gung-ho a day after the successful test of the new-generation 3,500-km Agni-IV missile, senior defence scientists on Wednesday declared that Agni-V, with a strike range of over 5,000-km, would be test-fired within the December-February time-frame.
"The three-stage Agni-V is undergoing integration at the moment...it's on schedule," DRDO chief V K Saraswat said, adding that both Agni-IV and V were comparable to the best missiles in their class, including Chinese ones, as far as the technology was concerned. Agni programme director Avinash Chander said his team was "confident" of offering the 17.5-metre-tall Agni-V for induction to the armed forces by 2014. The much-lighter two-stage Agni-IV will be operational by 2013 after two to four more "repeatable" tests.
"Our aim is to take just two to three years from the first test to the induction phase," he said.
Once deployed, the 20-tonne Agni-IV and 50-tonne Agni-V will add the much-needed muscle to India's nuclear deterrence posture against China, which has a huge nuclear and missile arsenal like the 11,200-km Dong Feng-31A ICBM which is capable of hitting any Indian city. With higher accuracy, fast-reaction capability and road mobility, unlike the earlier largely rail-mobile Agni missiles, Agni-IV and V will give India the required operational flexibility against China since they will be capable of being stored and swiftly transported. If launched from the north-east, for instance, they will be able to hit high-value targets deep inside China.
India, however, is not in an arms race or "numbers game" like the US-Soviet rivalry of the Cold War era. "We are not looking at how many missiles China or Pakistan has. With a 'no first-use' nuclear weapons policy, we only want a sufficient number of missiles to defend the country in the event of a crisis. Ours is a defensive-mode strategy, even if others have offensive postures," Saraswat said. The DRDO chief added that "indigenous content" in India's strategic missiles had gone up to such a level, with ring-laser gyros, composite rocket motors, micro-navigation systems and their ilk, that "no technology control regime" could derail them any longer.
Then why not go for missiles that can fly around 10,000 km? DRDO claims that it has the capability to develop such missiles * but the government does not want alarm bells to clang around the globe.India, after all, is interested only in "credible minimum deterrence" against the threats it faces. Saraswat said the current focus was on fine-tuning the Agni missiles to defeat anti-ballistic missile systems of potential adversaries. Towards this end, added Chander, the radar and other "signatures" of Agni-IV have been significantly reduced to make them "much more immune to counter-measures".
What will make the Agni missiles even more deadly is the development of MIRV (multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles) warheads on which the DRDO is working. An MIRV payload on a missile carries several nuclear warheads, which can be programmed to hit different targets. A flurry of such missiles can completely overwhelm BMD ( ballistic missile defence) systems.
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India: more AWACS and BrahMos missiles
India is in final negotiations for buying two more Israeli-made EL/M-2075 Phalcon Airborne Warning and Control Systems, the Times of India reported.
The $800 million contract is in addition to another $1.1 billion deal for three Phalcons signed in 2004 with Israel and Russia, the Times report said. In that deal, Russia supplied the AWACS aircraft -- Ilyushin-76 military transport plane. The three planes were delivered in 2009 and 2010.
The Phalcon is developed by Israel Aerospace Industries and Elta Electronics Industries of Israel. Apart from India and Israel, the Phalcon is used by Chile and Singapore.
India also is on schedule for developing its own AWACS, a smaller system than the Phalcon and for use on smaller planes.
The mini-AWACS program is a $400 million project to mount the radars on three Embraer-145 jets bought from Brazil.
Delivery date for the first plane is 2015, according to a Ministry of Defense statement in November 2010. The Ministry also plans another three mini-AWACS, but has not decided on an aircraft.
Dr. Prahlada, Chief Controller of Research and Development at the Defense Research and Development Organization, which is leading the mini-AWACS program, said the systems will be "85 percent indigenous."
The first three mini-AWACS will have a radar range between 150 and 225 miles and stay airborne for up to 5 hours.
Early last year, Boeing was in talks with the Ministry of Defense about using its 737-700 as a platform for the mini-AWACS.
The AWACS will be especially useful for detecting troop movements as well as cruise missiles.
The Time of India also reported that the Indian army has inducted another regiment of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, a precision-strike weapon with a range of around 200 miles.
The missiles likely will be deployed in the state of Arunachal Pradesh state in the northeast along the remote and contested border with China, the report said.
BrahMos missiles will "counter China's huge buildup of military infrastructure all along the 4,057-kilometer (2,500-mile) Line of Actual Control following a similar nod for the western sector facing Pakistan." the Times said.
The BrahMos is a based on Russian technology and is developed by BrahMos Aerospace -- a joint venture company created in 1998. BMA is 50.5 percent Indian-government owned and 49.5 percent by the Russian government. The name BrahMos is derived from two rivers, India's Brahmaputra and Russia's Moskva.
Last year the Indian government announced plans to have a reduced-weight air-launched version of the BrahMos on the air force's Sukhoi SU-30 MK-1 fighter aircraft by 2012.
The two-stage supersonic version, with its solid propellant engine, reaches Mach 3. But a hypersonic version is under development, BrahMos Aerospace said. It will use scram-jet engines, in place of ramjet, and reach Mach 6.
India has hopes for exporting the missiles, but only after all Ministry of Defense orders have been met.
Read more: India: more AWACS and BrahMos missiles - UPI.com
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i guess they will choose ALH(Advance Light Helicopter) Dhruv made by Hindustan Like this report belowOriginally Posted by jawad
Indian Comptroller General Slams Dhruv Helo | AVIATION WEEK
In a major setback to Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.’s (HAL) efforts to market its flagship Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH), India’s Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) has issued a report portraying the helicopter in a very poor light.
CAG’s observations are part of its report on public sector undertakings (PSUs), which was presented to the Indian Parliament on Aug. 5.
One of CAG’s most striking criticisms is that “90% of the total value of material in Dhruv is imported.” The report also takes HAL to task for not finalizing alternate indigenous suppliers, and says the Dhruvs are overweight and their new Shakti engine has not yet been certified.
“The 74 ALHs with Indian armed forces are flying with many concessions, while weapons system integration is way too behind,” the report says.
India’s air force and army have ordered 159 Dhruvs from HAL, while the navy long ago expressed its displeasure with the poor anti-submarine warfare capabilities of its six choppers.
Most top HAL officials declined to discuss the report on the record. But sources at HAL’s Helicopter Division said the report will further dampen the spirit of the team, which has been heavily criticized by customers and the media.
“It’s unfortunate that HAL is cornered once again on the ALH issue,” said a senior designer who has been part of the project for more than two decades. “It’s a fact that the project had to take a beating due to reasons beyond our control, despite our best efforts. We are now waiting for what action management [will] put in place to salvage the pride.”
The findings come as HAL has temporarily assigned P. Soundara Rajan, director of marketing and corporate planning, to oversee HAL’s Helicopter Complex while managing director R. Srinivasan is on a health-related lea
Indian report slams performance of HAL's Dhruv helicopter
As many as 40 Hindustan Aeronautics Dhruv advanced light helicopters (ALH) in service with the Indian army are unable to support military operations in high-altitude zones like the Siachen Glacier, according to a new report by the nation's comptroller and auditor general (CAG).
"The ALH was not able to fly above 5,000m [16,400ft], though the army's requirements stipulated an ability to fly up to 6,500m," the CAG says, blaming the deficiency on "the limitation of the engine used".
The army has instead had to rely on using its HAL-built Cheetah and Chetak single-engined helicopters, the CAG says, warning that this trend could "adversely impact operational preparedness".
HAL has so far delivered around 80 Turbomeca TM333 2B2-powered Dhruvs to the Indian armed forces, but the nation's navy has also found the type inadequate to meet is requirements. An armed version of the ALH featuring uprated Shakti engines is now undergoing trials.
© Messe Berlin
Two Dhruvs have been exported to Nepal, one leased in Israel and five delivered to the Ecuadorian air force from a seven-aircraft deal worth $51 million. Turkey has also ordered three for medical service use.
The CAG has also criticised state-owned HAL for sending five Dhruvs to participate in air shows in Malaysia and Thailand in December 2005, despite the type having been grounded due to shortcomings including tail rotor vibration. The government watchdog says the "unsafe and imprudent" decision resulted in a financial loss of around 50 million rupees ($1 million), as the aircraft had to be transported back to Bangalore.
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ALH might have its problems, but as long as China don't have their own stuff that can operate in those areas it can be somewhat forgiven...?
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Didn't the last war with China happen b/c of India massing along the Chinese border?
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Meaning? Are you saying that China doesn't have high altitude helicopter?
Chinese chopper hits highest altitude during test flight
Beijing: China's indigenously developed civilian freight helicopter, the AC313, successfully reached a flight altitude of 8,000 meters during a trial, a height that will enable the chopper fulfill plateau missions.
The AC313, developed and manufactured by the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), hit its highest altitude to date during a trial flight on September 20 in northwest China's Qinghai Province, AVIC said in a statement on Tuesday.
"The test flight has fully proven the helicopter's function and reliability, and will decide the range of its flight altitude," official news agency Xinhua quoted Xu Chaoliang, chief engineer of the AC313 as saying.
The helicopter, with a maximum takeoff weight of 13.8 tons, can be used for transportation, forest fire prevention, emergency search and rescue missions, disaster relief and medical aid.
The AC313 completed its maiden flight in March 2010.
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In this context it'd be attack helicopter, it's no secret that Chinese fielded transport helicopters in the highlands - this month their regular documentary have one episode talked about helicopter pilots get their highland flight certification, the helicopter they use was Mi-17.
Also, AC313 is still a civilian model, not military one. Though there were some said the Z-8K is the military version of AC313, no pics of it operate in the highlands so far - the known PLA helicopters operate in any regularity were the S-70 Blackhawk and the Mi-17.
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really, why wouldnt the indians learn from history if thats the case, considering the comprehensive defeat?
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With recent US backing and billions of $ worth of arms they think that India will finally be able to face Chinese forces.
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China flexing muscles, govt clears Brahmos for Arunachal
China flexing muscles, govt clears Brahmos for Arunachal - Indian Express
Brahmos missiles is India’s first offensive tactical missile deployment against China. Pressing ahead with the second phase of military expansion along the China front, the government has given the go-ahead to deployment of Brahmos cruise missiles in Arunachal Pradesh. This will be India’s first offensive tactical missile deployment against China, sources said.
The three Brahmos missile regiments raised so far have been deployed in the western sector to counter the Pakistan threat. This will be the fourth regiment.
With a range of 290 km, these cruise missiles are being deployed to improve India’s military reach into the Tibet Autonomous Region and counter China’s elaborate missile deployment along the Sino-Indian border.
This, sources said, dovetails with India’s second expansion plan but is being fast-tracked because of urgency shown by the armed forces.
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has also cleared the five-year expansion plan for which he had given the green signal earlier. The plan involves fresh accretion of 89,000 troops, with 400 officers.
This is estimated to cost over Rs 65,000 crore, making it one of India’s biggest one-time military expansion effort. The proposal is now with the Finance Ministry, and will be put up before the Cabinet Committee on Security.
Linked to this, the CCS has decided to focus on security of Indian islands with the larger view of securing maritime routes criss-crossing the Indian Ocean.
Two Army brigades are also being lined up for the Andamans while a battalion-strength presence is being considered for Lakshadweep alongside the Navy. Air Force assets are also being increased in these island territories, the sources said.
The second Army expansion on the China border will include setting up a corps headquarter in Panagarh, West Bengal, along with two more divisions. An independent armoured brigade along with an artillery division will be part of the set-up.
Senior Member
Not that the Indian considered such was a defeat per se, after all the Chinese gained nothing in the incident, it was the kind of ideological idiocy plus political reality that forced Chinese hands in all things back than.
India regained their confidence over the years and its policy to serve as the West's proxy against China have yielded India many advanced weapons the best money can buy...meanwhile PLA haven't been to war for more than 2 decades....however, India's inefficiency in quelling open rebellion by "Maoist" militia, and the kind of fiasco during Mumbai terrorist incident, could India actually pull one off against the PLA?
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So tell me what is the difference between civilian and military version and why a civilian helicopter cannot be modified for military purposes?
Most military helicopter like Z9 starter life civilian helicopter
China buy Mi 17 because it is dirt cheap economical consideration rule
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