The Future Of Vertical aviation.

I'm thinking we'll see more v-22 like VTOL and coaxial helicopters in due time. I can't give a timeline but eventually we might start seeing jet powered osprey like aircraft. Real sci fi.

And china continues to fall behind...

Given China's population living mostly in densely populated environment, and the terrain being generally mountainous, one would expect China to invest heavily in vertical transport as oppose to normal aircraft transport which requires costly airports (in term of area/space, and construction). America doesn't have such problem as it has mostly flat lands, and low population density so it can afford to have 15,095 airports (!!) compare to China's 482.

But I think the 2008 Sichuan earthquake exposed the critical problem in such area that China is now investing in the production and development of helicopters much more than ever before.

I think the latest news was the signing of cooperation deal with Russia to develop the successor of Mil Mi-26 super heavy lift transport helicopter back in July 2010. There is also continuous development of the Z-8 variants. Another project is the Avicopter Z-15 (Eurocopter EC175) which is a 7-ton class medium utility helicopter being developed by AVIC and Eurocopter schedule to be certified this year (2011).

Right now, I think China is only focusing on acquiring the know-how to produce and develop helicopters. There will be incremental improvements we will see in these projects, but nothing fundamentally innovative since China is still learning.

Those V-22 Osprey-like stuff probably won't show up in China for another 20 years for sure.

I don't think any country apart from the US is seriously looking into tilt rotors at the moment... Europe doesn't seem to be at least.

Vertical Take Off and Landing is expensive compared with using conventional aircraft. Short Take Off and Landing is in between and deserves more attention. I would think of a tilt wing STOL similar to the Bv-144 ( from the mid-'40's! ), with four engines driving two contra-rotating props. The main problem is manufacturing the gears and we have seen major improvements in those, especially driven by the needs of the helicopters.
V-22 was driven by military needs and does not provide a good basis for civilian aircraft.

for the record the "Areo-train" concept uses more electrical based movement then the osprey.
As for European Tilt-rotors I think i can dispute that

Originally Posted by flight global dated 21/02/10

AgustaWestland looks to take full control of BA609 civil tiltrotor programme
By Luca Peruzzi

Italian rotorcraft maker AgustaWestland hopes to acquire control of the BA609 civil tiltrotor programme it shares with Bell Helicopter, in order to speed up the aircraft's certification and delivery to market.

Chief executive Giuseppe Orsi says negotiations are ongoing and adds that AgustaWestland's parent, the Italian industrial giant Finmeccanica, "has authorised us to conclude negotiations within certain conditions to reach this important achievement".

Orsi was speaking during the 35th annual Ambrosetti economic development conference at Lake Como, Italy, which featured a presentation of the VertiPass study on rotorcraft within the framework of a future integrated national mobility plan for Italy. The event also featured a BA609 flying display.

Also present was Finmeccanica president and chief executive Pier Francesco Guarguaglini, who forecast that the world market for BA6090s would be 500 aircraft within 10 years of first delivery, including 40-50 aircraft to be sold to Italian government agencies.

According to Orsi, BA609 certification in the US and European Union is currently on schedule for 2013. He says more than 80 aircraft have been ordered so far by some 40 customers, including government agencies, with an expected price above €20 million ($29 million) depending on configuration.

So far, the Bell-AgustaWestland BA609 joint venture has completed two of four planned prototypes, with one flying in Italy and a second in the USA. A third aircraft is currently in production.

Bell would not comment on the development.

Recent years have seen Bell's share of the world market for civil helicopters slide from just over a half of the market to barely a fifth in unit terms, with Eurocopter enjoying the dominance Bell once had. By value, figures from Teal Group analysts in Washington show Eurocopter and AgustaWestland led the 2008 civil market with 38% and 34% respectively, leaving Bell third with 11%.

But tiltrotor technology has been a boost for Bell, with the Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey military tiltrotor proving popular with the US Marines. After the 2008 Farnborough air show Bell's executive vice-president for customer solutions Mike Blake said that while the company has no short-term expectations for the BA609, it believes the tiltrotor's combination of vertical lift with a tripling of range and doubling of speed compared with helicopters will one day win over civil fliers if the machines are affordable.

Originally Posted by flightglobal21/09/09

AgustaWestland looks to take full control of BA609 civil tiltrotor programme
By Luca Peruzzi

Italian rotorcraft maker AgustaWestland hopes to acquire control of the BA609 civil tiltrotor programme it shares with Bell Helicopter, in order to speed up the aircraft's certification and delivery to market.

Chief executive Giuseppe Orsi says negotiations are ongoing and adds that AgustaWestland's parent, the Italian industrial giant Finmeccanica, "has authorised us to conclude negotiations within certain conditions to reach this important achievement".

Orsi was speaking during the 35th annual Ambrosetti economic development conference at Lake Como, Italy, which featured a presentation of the VertiPass study on rotorcraft within the framework of a future integrated national mobility plan for Italy. The event also featured a BA609 flying display.

Also present was Finmeccanica president and chief executive Pier Francesco Guarguaglini, who forecast that the world market for BA6090s would be 500 aircraft within 10 years of first delivery, including 40-50 aircraft to be sold to Italian government agencies.

According to Orsi, BA609 certification in the US and European Union is currently on schedule for 2013. He says more than 80 aircraft have been ordered so far by some 40 customers, including government agencies, with an expected price above €20 million ($29 million) depending on configuration.

So far, the Bell-AgustaWestland BA609 joint venture has completed two of four planned prototypes, with one flying in Italy and a second in the USA. A third aircraft is currently in production.

Bell would not comment on the development.

Recent years have seen Bell's share of the world market for civil helicopters slide from just over a half of the market to barely a fifth in unit terms, with Eurocopter enjoying the dominance Bell once had. By value, figures from Teal Group analysts in Washington show Eurocopter and AgustaWestland led the 2008 civil market with 38% and 34% respectively, leaving Bell third with 11%.

But tiltrotor technology has been a boost for Bell, with the Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey military tiltrotor proving popular with the US Marines. After the 2008 Farnborough air show Bell's executive vice-president for customer solutions Mike Blake said that while the company has no short-term expectations for the BA609, it believes the tiltrotor's combination of vertical lift with a tripling of range and doubling of speed compared with helicopters will one day win over civil fliers if the machines are affordable.

Originally Posted by Flight global 14/03/11

Bell, AgustaWestland disagree on future of BA609 partnership
By Stephen Trimble

Airframers AgustaWestland and Bell Helicopter have engaged in a public spat over the future management of their BellAgusta Aerospace joint venture, which produces the BA609 civil tiltrotor.

Giuseppe Orsi, AgustaWestland's chief executive, ignited the row on the eve of the HAI Heli-Expo convention.

Orsi said that Bell's executives have "agreed" to change the management of the BA609 programme, although negotiations are ongoing.

AgustaWestland has been in discussions with Bell for nearly two years to take over leadership of the BA609, which has been delayed until at least 2016.

BA 609 tiltrotor, Bell Helicopter
© Bell Helicopter

But Bell executives disagreed with Orsi. "We're continuing to work to find the best way to get the aircraft to certification," chief executive John Garrison said. "It will take a partnership to get there." Garrison added that there has been no change to Bell's position in regard to the discussions with AgustaWestland.

When asked to respond, AgustaWestland clarified that Bell will remain in the partnership as a junior partner, so Garrison's comments were actually in line with Orsi's position.

But Bell continued to disagree with AgustaWestland's stance, saying that it remains "premature" to say that Bell has agreed to accept a junior role in the partnership.

The BA609 is a product of Bell's experimental XV-15 tiltrotor, and leverages the technology developed for the US military's V-22 Osprey. Despite its shared technology, flight tests for the BA609 have been plagued by delays.

The twin-engined tiltrotor, meanwhile, continues to fly at a "low pace" in the delayed certification process, Orsi says. Originally expected to receive regulatory approval in 2011, the BA609 is now scheduled to be certificated in 2015 or 2016, AgustaWestland says.

The timing of certification is based on the progress of de-icing testing, which will not begin until the third test aircraft starts flying in 2013, AgustaWestland says.

That aircraft is now on the assembly line. Meanwhile, the second prototype of the BA609 is flying in Italy, and AgustaWestland has received the fuselage of the fourth prototype.

The first prototype of the nine-passenger business aircraft completed its main flight eight years ago.

Originally Posted by Asymptote

Given China's population living mostly in densely populated environment, and the terrain being generally mountainous, one would expect China to invest heavily in vertical transport as oppose to normal aircraft transport which requires costly airports (in term of area/space, and construction). America doesn't have such problem as it has mostly flat lands, and low population density so it can afford to have 15,095 airports (!!) compare to China's 482.

Southern China is mountainous, yes. However, northern China is very flat. The eastern portion of North China is pretty much entirely plains while the western portion of the North China is almost entirely desert (the infamous Gobi desert). So on word: flat. One of the major worries that China has is its northern plains have almost no geographical obstacles against any potential mechanized invasion from the north. One of the main functions for Xinjiang is being a buffer between Russia and flat northern and northwestern China.

Additionally, the mostly populated areas in China is on the East coast, which is also flat. The most mountanous areas in China is located in the central and West.

Originally Posted by vesicles

Southern China is mountainous, yes. However, northern China is very flat. The eastern portion of North China is pretty much entirely plains while the western portion of the North China is almost entirely desert (the infamous Gobi desert). So on word: flat. One of the major worries that China has is its northern plains have almost no geographical obstacles against any potential mechanized invasion from the north. One of the main functions for Xinjiang is being a buffer between Russia and flat northern and northwestern China.

Additionally, the mostly populated areas in China is on the East coast, which is also flat. The most mountanous areas in China is located in the central and West.

What I meant was, the area most people live, are either high density or its mountainous, which is bad for airport construction. Nobody wants to live in desert, and northern China if I am not mistaken is experiencing severe droughts, with possibility that it could turn it into a desert in the next 100 years (like the great american "dust bow" Dust Bowl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

As China's rural population continue to migrate to the more prosperous east coast cities, the pressure will intensify on the build-able area of land, with less and less land available (if not already) for airports which requires very large area and clearings for aircraft approach.

On the other hand, "helipad" on top of the high rise building is fairy cheap and low cost in a high density environment. The only problem I see is it will conflict with the solar panel installations which are usually on top of the high rise buildings.

Which brings us too the concept of smaller airports using vertical lift aircraft. the Idea being that why travel too a huge airport for a non international flight but rather why not travel too a smaller location and hop a shuttle too your destination A sort of Bus or train for the air. Hence the large tilt rotor of Karem Aviation's dreams
aerobig.jpg
The goal being you take a small existing airport upgrade it then run hops from city too city in minutes as opposed to hours.

This concept is one of the reasons I asked my question. The civilian heavy vertical. where the light compound helicopter is better for Air Ambulances and SAR the heavy lifter at high speed caring passengers seems the best use fallowed by airborne fire control and disaster relief . Well the military will take what it likes for it's needs.

I believe the driving factor for vert lift development in the civilian sector will naturally be profitability. As I see it, so far helos have traditionally been more expensive than light planes, both in acquisition and maintenance. And I guess this will hold true for the future. All these tilt something designs will be rather complicated, and getting them airborne fully loaded while not having supporting wings will remain fuel costly. I therefore think vert lift transport will be something that will remain a niche solution for wealthy customers who can affort it.
Another aspect is the near airport argument. Those only make sense if they are closeby to shuttle somewhere else. Especially in modern post industrial societies people will be reluctant to accept a vert lift airport close by in every major city becase of the noise burden. Maybe some kind of STOL design is more promissing.

Military vert lift, however, is not so much driven by money but rather tactical needs. I still think the conventional layout will stick around for years to come. Specialized roles will emerge, however. Since speed is a major benefit, I think some kind of pusher rotor design will make it operatinal for scouting/light attack, and maybe SF insertion/exfil. The Osprey is around but might not have a like peer for some time, maybe smaller designs/drones.

I looked at civilian STOL and VTOL some forty years ago and was then impressed by the fact that a VTOL field, because of the noise produced by the aircraft, needed to be as large or larger than a STOL field. In the mean time aircraft have become quieter, but people have become more sensitive to the noise, so the old comparison still holds. Use STOL aircraft rather than large VTOL aircraft whenever the passenger demand is sufficient and there is no possibility (as yet ) to build a railway. Don't let the configuration of your civilian aircraft be determined by some excessive investment in a military seeming counterpart.

A point I forgot to mention yesterday: The VTOL aircraft decelerates and accelerates in the air, then lands resp. takes off, all the time making a lot of noise. An 80 passenger VTOL is likely to be a lot noisier than the Mi-26, which can carry as many passengers, but with only a moderate cruising speed.
The STOL aircraft takes much less time for take off and landing and an air field can handle many more aircraft movements when they are STOL aircraft than when you use VTOL.
And of course the STOL aircraft is much lighter and cheaper, especially use less engine power, and less fuel, than a VTOL with the same transport capacity.

Originally Posted by Flight global

Russia eyes high-speed helicopters
By Vladimir Karnozov

Russia looks set to join Eurocopter and Sikorsky in the race to commercialise a high-speed helicopter, with the allocation of Rb3.6billion ($1.3 billion) in government cash to support development of concepts by Russian Helicopters' Kamov and Mil design bureaux.

Ultimately, only one of the two designs will proceed. Deputy minister for industry and trade Denis Manturov described the Rb400 million allocated for 2011 - to be followed by Rb700 million in 2012 and Rb2.5 billion in 2013 - as "a moderate sum", and added: "Work is only picking up and at this stage the industry simply could not do more than its capacities allow."

Kamov's Ka-92 concept echoes Sikorsky's X2, with counter-rotating main rotors and a single rear-mounted pusher prop. With X2, Sikorsky has surpassed 250kt (460km/h) in testing and aims to demonstrate good low-speed handling and efficient hovering.


© Vladimir Karnozov

Mil's Mi-X1 takes a different tack, with a single main rotor and pusher prop with steering vane. This design offers an interesting blend of the X2 or Ka-92 approach and Eurocopter's X3 hybrid concept which features a single main rotor and twin pushers mounted laterally on short wings that provide some lift in forward flight.


© Vladimir Karnozov

Eurocopter, which has since September 2010 been flying an X3 built around off-the-shelf components including a Dauphin 365 airframe, promises less speed than Sikorsky - but isn’t far off, having just achieved 232kts in sustained, level flight - but insisted its design will be more cost-effective. Critically, said Eurocopter, main rotors are high-drag and counter-rotating designs are thus inefficient as well as mechanically complex. But with X3, the lateral wings provide some lift so the main rotor - which needs provide no forward thrust because the aircraft flies level - can be slowed in cruise mode, reducing drag.

Rotor drag is just one reason why conventional helicopters cannot fly faster than about 180kts by simply applying more engine power to turn their blades more quickly. The combination of high rotor speeds and high forward air speed can make the blade tips go supersonic, particularly during the forward part of their sweep.

However, the critical problem is so-called retreating blade stall. In forward flight, a rotor blade's relative air speed is higher when sweeping forward than when sweeping rearward. Thus, each blade's angle of attack must be flatter on the way forward and steeper when retreating, so that blades on either side of centre provide equal lift. As helicopter air speed rises, this differential is exacerbated until such point as the retreating blades reach a stall angle of attack - and the helicopter becomes unstable.

Hence the attraction of counter-rotating blades; on each rotor, one blade is always moving forward on each side, so the angle of attack of retreating blades need not be raised to balance the lift. As a counter-rotating design, X2 enjoys this inherent advantage, but reducing blade tip speed has also been a significant achievement by Sikorsky engineers.

If the Mi-X1 can fly level, its single main rotor would, also, not have to provide any forward thrust and thus run slower than would be the case for a conventional helicopter in forward flight. However, without the added lift advantage enjoyed by Eurocopter thanks to X3's short fixed wings, Mil's designers face an interesting development challenge to keep rotor speed low enough.

pretty much a restatement. Here's my oh so humble opinion.
2018 is the Breaker, but 2014 is the maker. why? how? who?
Why 2018 is the Year Just about Every currently in service US helicopter production line ends. Blackhawks Apaches, Ah1/UH1, Chinooks you name it, save perhaps for the v22 and CH53k they all end within 2 years of 2018. So the Us military will have too be looking into replacements for there entire fleets of vertical lift in all four plus services the uh72 is the only current configuration that could push it and that's only if the Army's Armed Aerial Scout selects it as there winner in the year 2014. I think that program will set the mood for the Joint rotor-craft program coming just after it, If the Lakota "Warrior" Wins then the next ten years will be the same as the last little more then minor retooling of the same aircraft It seems likely too me though that a Compound will win the AAS, and I like the Sikorsky S-97 concept for it. The next Phases would be the Medium weight class of blackhawk, Venom and Apache, Viper fallowed by heavy lifters of the Chinook. In the Chinook class I think Tilt rotor is the best option.
Sikorsky is not limiting it's self and nor is AXV too military markets either though conversion or new builds by 2025 compounds will be on helipads of private entitys. The BA 609 is also a make or breaker of it's own as it holds the opening salvo of Private and European tilt-rotors. If it sells expect competitors.

At Eurocopter the X4 Aircraft demonstrator is stated as the replacement for the Dolphin, panther family although we have yet too see it the last demonstrator was the x3 compound and the x4 is Promised "too change what we think of helicopters". If the king oc choppers Goes compound on one of it's best selling products how long till it's whole line goes compound?

in Russia the KA92 seems the best bet for a new Compound lifter it uses the most ready technologies and seems the most realistic. I doubt the Ka90 can fly and the Mil concept seems flawed with out a stabilizing system. If the Ka92 flys as predicted in 2015 the Russia Will likely have a production line sometime by 2020, It's Aimed a civilian Transport everything says Russia is a land made for vertical lift so for them sales are already made. It would not take a fool too figure out how quick they could also work this into military applications the Ka 50 already has coaxial rotors a retrofit could push it compound.

large Civil Tilt rotors Are not out of the question the issues of noise is not that great killer some make it out too be. as space becomes limited and trips become more frequent more options are going too be wanted. the main issues are engines, fuel and payload. And Such aircraft could pull other jobs the Osprey can fly as a heavy lifter with slung cargo imagine a larger tilt rotor used as a sky crane and air borne water tanker taking on wildfires.

Originally Posted by Stars And Stripes

Ospreys will replace Sea Knights at Futenma, Marine Corps says
By Travis J. Tritten and Chiyomi Sumida
Stars and Stripes
Published: June 2, 2011
Related

Okinawa decries reported plans to locate Ospreys at Futenma
DOD hasn't fully calculated cost of shifting Pacific forces, GAO says

TEAS-Osprey
Two generals are at odds about the cause of a CV-22 crash in April that killed two of the three cockpit crew members and two passengers. Brig. Gen. Donald Harvel, the accident investigation board's president, believes engine problems were at fault; Lt. Gen. Kurt Cichowski, to whom Harvel answered during the investigation, blames aircrew errors.
U.S. Air Force

CAMP FOSTER, Okinawa — The Marine Corps confirmed Thursday that it plans to replace helicopters based at Futenma air station on Okinawa with the Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft, a move that could complicate already tense U.S.-Japan relations involving the island.

The Ospreys could begin arriving at Futenma in 2013 as part of a worldwide effort to upgrade the Marine Corps’ aging fleet of Vietnam War-era Sea Knight helicopters, according to the 3rd Marine Expeditionary Force and Marine Corps Bases Japan public affairs office.

The aircraft, which can take off like a helicopter and fly like a propeller airplane, has already been put into combat service in Iraq and Afghanistan, and despite a rocky development stage, has had few reported accidents during the past four years of combat flights.

But the Okinawa government has staunchly opposed locating the new aircraft at Futenma, calling them too “dangerous” for a military base located in a densely populated area. In 2004, a Marine Corps Sea Stallion helicopter based at the air station crashed on the neighboring campus of a Japanese university. The event continues to invoke animosity toward the large U.S. military presence on the island.

“At Marine Corps Air Station Futenma, 24 CH-46 [Sea Knight] helicopters will be replaced by 24 MV-22 [Osprey] tilt-rotor aircraft,” according to a Marine Corps written response to a Stars and Stripes inquiry. “Although we anticipate that the MV-22 will be deployed to Okinawa starting in fiscal year 2013, no final decisions have been made regarding the timing of their arrival.”

The Futenma air station is scheduled to be relocated to an area farther north near the city of Nago following an agreement between the U.S. and Japanese governments, meaning the Ospreys could quickly be moved from the urban area around Futenma to an area less populated.

But the relocation plans have been under intense pressure for years due to opposition from Okinawans who want the base moved off the island. The island makes up a powerful lobby in Japan that has bedeviled the Tokyo government and caused the resignation of former Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama because he could not make good on promises involving Futenma.

Ginowan, where the air station is located, came out strongly against the Osprey plans Thursday.
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“If the plan is pursued, Ginowan City and its residents will take every action necessary to stop it,” said Shigeo Yamauchi, chief of the city’s military affairs office.

Tatsuo Oyakawa, chief of the Okinawa prefectural government’s Military Affairs Office, told Stars and Stripes on Thursday that Okinawa will oppose the plan with one voice.

“Futenma air station is a facility that is supposed to be closed,” Oyakawa said. “Arrival of the Osprey is an addition to an already-heavy burden on residents in communities surrounding the air station.”

Meanwhile, members of the Senate Armed Services Committee last month criticized the cost of U.S. military plans to move Futenma north and said the plan should be abandoned, striking a powerful blow on the U.S. side of the equation.

The Ospreys and the growing scrutiny over costs threaten to ratchet up tension in advance of an expected June 21 meeting on the Futenma relocation and a planned military realignment in the region between Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, Japan Defense Minister Toshimi Kitazawa and Japan Foreign Minister Takeaki Matsumoto.

And the Tiltrotors go marching on.

I hate triple posting but I want too keep this going and up too date so

Originally Posted by Flight global

US Army reveals details of Joint Multi-Role fleet vision
By Stephen Trimble

When the US Army aviation community looks into the future, it sees a radically different helicopter fleet that could turn the domestic helicopter industry upside down.

Instead of more than 20 helicopter types spread across the services, there are only three basic models, plus a new "ultra" category extending vertical take-off and landing aircraft into the domain of medium-sized fixed-wing transports.

In the army's vision, no aircraft will be slower than today's fastest conventional helicopter, which is limited to 170kt (314.5km/h). In all three basic categories - light, medium and heavy - the future aircraft are not merely larger than the conventional helicopters they are replacing; the next generation could be powerful enough to carry their predecessors as external payload.

V-22 Osprey, USAF
© USAF
With the exception of the V-22, the helicopter industry has been building improved models of exisiting aircraft for more than three decades

And it could all become reality relatively quickly for a military rotorcraft programme. With the notable exception of the Bell Boeing V-22, the industry has been building improved models of existing aircraft for more than three decades. The army's vision would swiftly break with that tradition. Four new aircraft types superior in every way to the existing fleet would enter service during a 10-year period, beginning in 2025.

A total of 25 existing aircraft types, including conventional aircraft and tilt rotors, would be phased out as the more advanced replacements arrive.

The transition would begin in the ultra-sized category, under a plan that envisions building a vertical lift aircraft with performance somewhere between a Lockheed Martin C-130J and Airbus A400M. It is the most extreme of the four new airlifters but, perhaps counter-intuitively, it is to enter service first, around 2025.

The next step would introduce the so-called JMR-Medium, a fast-moving utility-and-attack aircraft that could insert a platoon-sized unit up to 424km (263 miles) from a base, or launch a deep-strike assault on a column of enemy tanks well behind the front lines. According to a May presentation by Colonel Doug Rombough that was posted on the internet, it could enter service by 2027 or 2028.

The next generation of scout helicopters would arrive a few years later, around 2030. It is called JMR-Light, but it would be able to carry the full weight of the 5,500lb (2,500kg)-class Bell Helicopter OH-58 Kiowa Warrior as either internal or external stores. Finally, the schedule for JMR-Heavy anticipates fielding a replacement for the Boeing CH-47 Chinook, which achieved first flight in 1961, by 2035.

Piasecki X-49A, Piasecki Aircraft
© Piasecki Aircraft
Piasecki Aircraft's X-49A is a modified YSH-60F with a 200kt speed capability

The vision has been known for several months, but details of the performance attributes and timing called for by the army's so-called joint multi-role (JMR) study have only recently appeared. Industry officials interested in competing for the JMR projects were briefed by the army in December. However, the information still was not disclosed or leaked until late July or early August, when Col Rombough's presentation surfaced online.

How real the army's commitment to realising the vision of a four-tiered fleet of rotorcraft will be discovered within a few years.

The task is not simple in a new era of inevitable budget cuts, given that the programme seeks to introduce advanced technology, exotic rotorcraft configurations and all-new supply chains. At the same time, it supports the army's "mounted vertical manoeuvre" strategy, which calls for the rapid deployment of small groups of forces over widely dispersed areas.

However, the thing propelling the army aviation community forward is the fear of the alternative - another cycle of performance upgrades of existing helicopters.

"I don't want my grandchildren flying the [AH-64] Longbow Block 80," Major General Anthony Crutchfield told the Army Aviation Association of America conference last April.

However, it is not yet clear which direction the army will proceed. Like gamblers hedging bets, both the army and the rotorcraft industry are supporting parallel tracks to support the JMR vision as well as the path that lead's towards Crutchfield's worst-case scenario - the AH-64 Block 80.

Joint multi-role helicopter specs see Original

This is true even for the underlying technologies at the heart of any new rotorcraft modernisation programme. Two companies - GE Aviation and the Advanced Turbine Engine Company (ATEC), a joint venture between Honeywell and Pratt & Whitney - are competing to develop a 50% more powerful successor to the 2,000shp-class T700 turboshaft. The new engine - called the advanced affordable turbine engine (AATE) - could be applied in different ways.

The new powerplant could simply be inserted into the next generation of remanufactured or newly-built versions of the Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk or Boeing AH-64 Apache. But industry officials have also confirmed the engine is being designed with oil-sump pumps that can articulate vertically or horizontally. This often-overlooked feature is not found on the T700, and means the next generation of rotorcraft designs could support advanced, high-speed configurations, such as tilt rotors.

Meanwhile, fly-by-wire technology developed for the cancelled RAH-66 Comanche has now been demonstrated on the high-speed Sikorsky X2. It, too, is necessary to support a leap to a new generation of high-speed rotorcraft with much higher vibration levels. Or, the army could choose to apply it to bolster the handling and agility of its existing fleet of conventional helicopters in the next upgrade cycle or even sooner.

For industry, the implications of making the transition to JMR are stark. The military services currently support three large rotorcraft companies based in the USA, as well as two relatively recent entrants from Europe with the army's EADS North America UH-72A Lakota and the US Coast Guard's AgustaWestland MH-68. At least 25 basic helicopter and tiltrotor models are in service across the fleet, which include trainers, cargo, utility, scout and attack systems.

Under the army's JMR vision, the rotorcraft inventory would be consolidated into four basic types. At least the three smallest and perhaps all four types could be based on a single design by one of the five helicopter suppliers. By the mid-2040s, the last of the conventional helicopters would be retired from service, leaving an industrial base for rotorcraft not unlike the tactical aircraft industry, with one dominant supplier and one or two suppliers struggling to hang on.

The JMR vision also asks the industrial base to break the mould of two decades of remanufacturing programmes and compete with all-new designs and advanced performance.

Some industry officials, led especially by Bell, Boeing and EADS, pushed the army to consider alternative approaches to the acquisition plan. The normal path starts when the army establishes a requirement for a new weapon system. Bids are accepted to compete for a technology maturation phase, with two or three winners selected to compete for a winner-takes-all development contract leading to production.

Instead, these companies formed the vertical lift consortium (VLC). This sought to have the army incentivise investments by the prime helicopter suppliers in potential breakthrough technologies by smaller, more entrepreneurial companies.

The goal was to produce a wider range of experimentation for the same amount of funding, with the potential for finding the kind of "disruptive" technology changes difficult for a mature industry to bring forward on its own.

However, the army chose to bypass the VLC earlier this year, preferring the conventional path. At least $300 million has been budgeted for a technology demonstration phase in three years, with two or more competitors for the JMR-medium class of rotorcraft. Meanwhile, VLC members intend to continue a parallel demonstration programme, although it is not clear if the army's budget can support both tracks simultaneously.

Nothing, however, is certain in a budget environment expected to only decline during the next decade. Even the army's fall-back strategy to modernise its existing helicopters with new engines and fly-by-wire controls could be in doubt in that scenario.

But industry officials still see opportunities even beyond the JMR technology demonstration.

Sikorsky intends to develop and fly two S-97 Raider prototypes by 2014, leveraging the coaxial-rotor and pusher-propeller combination of the recently retired X2 demonstrator. The S-97 is designed to be a 10,000lb-class vehicle that could lift its own weight in payload. This falls somewhere between the performance of the army's JMR-light and JMR-medium classes.

Sikorsky is likely to offer the S-97 instead for a separate requirement now emerging for the US Special Operations Command (SOCOM). The roughly 50 Boeing/MD Helicopters MH-6 Little Birds flown by the 160th special operations aviation regiment were intended to be replaced by the Bell ARH-70 Arapaho, but the army terminated the contract.

So in essence the JMR light replaces the Oh53D, the H6 series and quite likely will also become the flight trainer.
Well JMR medium replaces H60, H1, H72 and more well heavy would take the Ch47 and Ch53k as well as the osprey in the army model here. well the Ultra would shoot down the C130J, but I find trouble with this as the V22 is being pushed and loved by the USMC. It's also got the Navy looking so why replace a totally new airframe so quickly into it's service life? I also Question the first platform too enter service The army suggesting the ultra class first. when If a successful development occurs then it seems likely A Light JMR could come out as part of the Armed Aerial Scout. One of the Entries for such the S97 seems a perfect fit for the job.

Originally Posted by flight global

DATE:20/07/11
SOURCE:Flight International
Textron: V-22 may sell to 10-12 foreign countries
By Stephen Trimble

Saying export discussions have intensified within the past six months, Textron chief executive Scott Donnelly now estimates as many as 12 countries could buy the Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey tiltrotor after 2015.

"We're not talking about hundreds of countries" buying V-22s, Donnelly told analysts during a second-quarter earnings webcast on 20 July. "I think it's 10 to 12 countries that are going to buy these."

Donnelly named Israel as one nation involved in export discussions for the unique tiltrotor aircraft, which can hover and land vertically like a helicopter. However, others have not been disclosed because the countries have not announced their interest, he added.


Different versions of the V-22 will remain in production for the US Marine Corps and US Air Force through at least 2016.

Only then will the Bell Boeing joint venture producing the aircraft have the manufacturing capacity to deliver more to foreign customers, Donnelly said.

The potential production gap is still five years away, but the negotiating process with potential foreign buyers already started taking shape two years ago.

In March, the Israeli air force expressed new interest in acquiring the V-22, and a team of evaluators was dispatched last month to Marine Corps Air Station New River in North Carolina.

Meanwhile, Bell Boeing and the USMC are continuing to negotiate terms for a possible multi-year procurement deal for hundreds of MV-22s, with the aim of obtaining higher savings than possible on annual orders.

The MV-22 has been flying in operational service for the Marines for more than five years. More recently, the CV-22 has been launched into service by the Air Force Special Operations Command.

A recent highlight of the MV-22's performance was the rescue earlier this year of a USAF Boeing F-15E crew that had ejected over Libya

Now A few of Us Here at SDF have kicked around the V22 as a Common support platform. That is a single platform too preform the fallowing Current roles deemed "support" by the Navy, carrier on-board delivery (COD), electronic surveillance (ES), electronic warfare (EW), and airborne early warning (AEW). Another possible support role being aerial refueling.

Among combat roles, while anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-surface warfare (ASUW). Now with the Ea 18G the EW role is taken and in my opinion it fits the job better. but a Osprey could be modified too fill these jobs as well as an additional that being a sort of carrier based J-stars.

the base airframe has range and lift capacity of the Greyhound if not better, and the greyhound is the base airframe of the E2 so it would have the ability too be converted too a AEWC although I doubt a flat dish due too vertical drag, I imagine more of a pod shaped array. A Tanker kit could be worked up with a drogue for air too air refueling.
a ASW kit would also be the starting point for a Carrier J-stars. fallowing the same pattern as the Navy is with it's P-8 Posiden start with the ASW role install the ASW sonar system and torpedo racks then add a multi-role radar pod under the hull a radar akin too the type under development for the RQ4 global hawk. one that has a a long range, with high resolution air-to-ground and air-to-air synthetic aperture radar modes. Although it's likely that non of this would come until after 2020. Any thoughts?

When the USN abandoned the S-3 for it's long range ASW mission on CVs no replacement was given.

I feel the V-22, despite it's problems of years ago, has proven itself as a reliable platform. Like feel it should adapt a ASW role for CVs. It would give more range and speed that the SH-60s now in use. And of course it could be a COD of lesser capacity.

I'm sure we a looking way into the future to see any V-22 configured for ASW.