This is a discussion on British forces clash with Iraqi police in Basra. within the World Armed Forces forums, part of the World Strategic Defence Area category; Yesterday British troops rescued two British soilders that were being held by the Iraqi police. They broke through the outer ...
The Last Jedi
British forces clash with Iraqi police in Basra.
Yesterday British troops rescued two British soilders that were being held by the Iraqi police. They broke through the outer wall of the jail they were being held. I saw the restults of the British action on the BBC last evening. The rescue took place because the Iraqi police in Basra were going to turn the two soilders over the insurgents.
The two British soilders were operating as undercover operatives to infiltrate insurgent forces. The article hints they were probaly SAS.
The Iraqi government is furious with the British forces. Thsi could get real nasty. What do you gentlemen think??
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4267054.stm
The UK defence secretary and Iraqi prime minister have denied the unrest in Basra has strained relations between the two countries.
John Reid and Ibrahim Jaafari met in London to discuss tensions surrounding the arrest and rescue of two soldiers in the southern Iraqi city on Monday.
Iraq's interior minister has disputed British army accounts that police handed the men over to Shia militants.
In London, Mr Jaafari said the incident was still being investigated.
"We hope to realise the truth of the matter on the ground," he said.
The Army has said it had to rescue two soldiers from a house in Basra where they were taken by militants after the police ignored an order from the interior ministry to release them.
Iraq's national security adviser Muwafaq al-Rubaie has said Iraqi security forces had been penetrated by insurgents but he did not know to what extent.
But Interior Minister Baqir Solagh Jabr told BBC News the men never left police custody or the prison building in Basra and were not handed to militants.
He said the British army acted on "rumour" when it stormed the prison looking for them.
In London on Wednesday, Mr Jaafari and Mr Reid both denied any breakdown in relations after Monday's violence.
"Such things are expected to happen," the Iraqi prime minister said. "It will not affect the relationship between Iraq and Britain."
"There has not been a fundamental breakdown in trust," the defence secretary added. "There has been an incident that will be investigated."
The Iraqi government has launched an inquiry into the arrest of the soldiers, both thought to be members of the SAS elite special forces.
BRITISH FORCES IN IRAQ
Around 9,000 British soldiers are deployed in Iraq and most are based in the south. The biggest concentration is in and around Basra
Additionally, the RAF's main base is in Basra with a smaller unit in Baghdad
The Royal Navy has three major vessels involved in patrolling the Gulf
How events unfolded in Basra
There were anti-British protests on the streets of Basra on Wednesday, the BBC's Paul Wood reported.
He said the demonstrations were organised by local police.
One officer called the two UK soldiers "British terrorists" and claimed they should still be under arrest.
Paul Wood said demonstrators believed Iranian TV reports that the two men were detained after they opened fire on Shia pilgrims on Monday.
He said they were probably on a covert mission to get the intelligence needed to stop further attacks on British troops.
Their weapons, explosives and communications gear are standard kit for British special forces.
'On fire'
Meanwhile, the soldiers who were pictured on Monday caught up in the unrest have spoken about it for the first time.
"My back was on fire, down the back of my arms and part of my face," Sergeant George Long, of the Staffordshire Regiment, told the BBC.
"It was basic panic, I needed to get out of (the armoured vehicle's) turret and get the flames put out.
"I checked my gunner was being dealt with, then got back into the turret, stayed there to carry on with the public disorder."
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The Last Jedi
Humm?? I'm very surprised that no one has responded to this post. Interesting. I bet if the US Army had done the same thing the anti-American fellings would be making quite a thread. I can see it now..
"Bunch of cowboys!"
"Americans have no respect for the Iraqi people"
"I hope the insurgents kill many more US troops"
"The US should pull out now! the Iraqi's hate them".
ETC..ETC..
But the British did it..so there's no opinion!!!??? Makes no sense to me...I think??!!
Last edited by bd popeye; 09-21-2005 at 08:59 PM. Reason: content
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Why would the Iraqi government arrest those British soldiers? Aren't we all on the same side fighting off the insurgents?
Americans are great people.
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Britain do what ever Bush tolds.
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Originally Posted by bd popeye
well most of the commments would be directed to the BUSH adminastration not the people, Brits? who can blame them; they are like the cute dog that follows uncle sam around b/c he some food or something
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why the iraqi police hold british soldiers? why they want to turn them over insurgents, why "the Iraqi government is furious with the British forces"?give me an acceptable reason. all the answers are behind why the british soldiers there in iraq? are they there doing good things to iraqis? are they there for UN peace keeping?
Last edited by President; 09-21-2005 at 11:54 PM.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4263648.stm
Last Updated: Tuesday, 20 September 2005, 12:59 GMT 13:59 UK
Basra drama - how events unfolded
British officials would not say if the two men were working under cover
Monday brought high drama in Basra, with the arrest of two soldiers, the storming by UK forces of the police station where they were held and their eventual release.
It was also a day of confusion, with a succession of fast-moving events and conflicting reports.
The BBC News website traces the sequence of events as they unfolded.
Tensions were already high in Basra on Monday morning following the detention on Sunday of a senior figure in the Shia Mehdi Army, suspected of being behind a series of attacks on British troops.
Then two British soldiers, reportedly dressed as Arabs and driving a civilian car, attracted the notice of police at a checkpoint.
According to the Iraqi authorities they refused to stop, instead allegedly firing at the officers, killing one and wounding another. This has not been confirmed by the Ministry of Defence.
After allegedly declining to reveal their mission, the men were arrested and taken to the main Basra police station.
Basra officials said the men were working under cover, which the Ministry of Defence has not confirmed.
After learning of their arrest, the British military requested that they be handed over to coalition forces in accordance with agreed procedures.
The Iraqi government in Baghdad apparently agreed and ordered the handover, but this seems to have been disregarded by the police.
With fears for the prisoners' safety mounting, British troops surrounded the police station, setting up a cordon.
Iraqi demonstrators also started to gather, demanding the soldiers be kept in detention and sent to jail. Violent clashes broke out.
The troops were pelted with stones and petrol bombs, attacked with rockets and their armoured vehicles were set alight, forcing them to withdraw.
Photographs and video footage showing soldiers having to jump clear of the burning vehicles, one with his uniform ablaze, shocked viewers back in the UK.
Three soldiers were injured in the clashes - none seriously - and two civilians reportedly killed.
Iraqi police released pictures of two bearded men in seemingly bloodstained clothes - one with a bandaged head - who they said were the captured soldiers.
At 1630 BST, the British government issued a request that the faces of the two men be disguised by news outlets.
But they continued to refuse to comment on claims the men were special forces or working under cover, saying only that they were negotiating with the Iraqi authorities for their release.
Later, witnesses and Iraqi officials reported that British forces had used armoured vehicles to smash down a wall at the police station to free the arrested troops in a dramatic rescue.
The Iraqi governor of Basra, Mohammed al-Waili, condemned the action as "barbaric, savage and irresponsible".
Reports that as many as 150 Iraqi prisoners had also been freed were later denied by British and Basra authorities.
The British Embassy in Iraq confirmed the men had been freed and taken into British custody but gave no details of how this had been achieved.
But the MoD denied any knowledge of the police station being stormed, saying it understood the release had been negotiated.
It was not until a few hours later that the department admitted a wall at the police station had been accidentally demolished as troops tried to "collect" the captives, whose release had been negotiated with Iraqi authorities.
A spokesman said British troops had intervened after reports that militants had tried to spirit the men away as they were due to be released.
Finally, early on Tuesday morning, another version of events emerged.
Brigadier John Lorimer, commanding officer of 12 Mechanised Brigade in Basra, said he ordered troops to storm the police station after being told the prisoners had been handed to "militia elements".
The MoD said an armoured vehicle had been used to break down a section of the compound wall so troops could enter.
Questions
A search of the building confirmed they were not there.
It is understood local police finally revealed their location at gunpoint, though no shots were said to have been fired.
The pair were eventually discovered in a house in Basra and rescued by troops.
The men were said to be in good health, but the incident has sparked concerns for the state of relations between British forces in Basra and the local police.
It has also raised questions about links between sections of the Basra police and the Mehdi Army militants.
Administrator
Those two are apparently SAS boys. They were probably undertaking some secret missions which the British does not want Iraqis to know. That's why they were in Arabian dress as a camouflage. It is probably only a tip of iceberg of the US/UK shadow operations currently in Iraq. We as normal people may never know what has really happened there. In fact, if it wasn't because they were caught by Iarqi police, we would have never known their existance.
So, what kind of mission were they undertaking? Collecting intelligence of Shia Muslim insurgents?
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Well all i can say is that it serves the Brits right for being short sighted and not realising would happen in Iraq after Saddam's overthrow. Many warned the British and Yanks what would happen in Iraq in terms of possible sectarian viloence between it's different ethnic groups (shi'ites sunnis and kurds).
It is also clear that the British army hasn't learned any lessons from it's military occupation in my part of the world Northern Ireland. There are many parallels between there involement here and in Iraq. Just as in Basra when the British army first arrived here in 1969 they were welcomed by catholics who believed that they would protect them from sectarian attacks. The same can be said of Basra where the shi'ite muslims welcomed the Britsh as they despised Saddam's regime which was mostly made up of sunni muslims and therefore treated them particularly harshly. However just as in N Ireland the welcome for the British hasn't lasted long in Basra this is because they have acted as if they are above the law which the Iraqis are beginning to resent. The same happened in Northern Ireland where the British army increasingly became seen as biased against catholics, In one famous incident the army shot dead 13 civilians at a civil rights march and was cleared of all blame. and therefore within a couple of years of there arrival became a hated force. The IRA and other republican groups were able to exploit incidents like this and it made them stronger. I believe we are witnessing the same thing happening in Basra now, and the reaction of the British to the arrests of their men will invariably increase support for the local shi'ite insurgent groups.
Finally i would just say that fighting terrorism within a conventional military framework is counterproductive that is why i believe that unless they change their methods the U.S and British are doomed to failure in Iraq. Just look at the Israelis have failed to stop Palestinian violence and how the Britsh failed to defeat the IRA in Northern Ireland despite the use of massive military force.
Junior Member
Bizarro Basra
Two special-ops Brits in wigs, 'traditional Arab dress' – and a car full of explosives?
by Justin Raimondo
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=7366
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