SinoDefence Forum

bd popeye

When it's empty it appears much larger than that. On the Forrestal(FID) demensions they must be including the jet shop... Or the Ground Support Equipment shop which is at the froward end of the hangar deck.

The Nimitz now has three hangar bays. When I was on board in '91 they had only two.

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Totoro

Thank you both. I find it very interesting that a Nimitz, which is supposedly 40 meters wide at water level, has a hangar of under 34 meters in width, even if its few decks above waterline.

I believe it is safe to assume then that the 16 meters length difference between forrestal and nimitz classes is the workshops.

Ford class should have pretty much the same hangar, as far as i can tell...

Jeff Head

In the second picture of the hanger bays that I posted, in the one that shows the elevator entry, notice the thickness of that elevator opening from the outside of the carrier to the interior of the hanger bay wall. Now, double that (for each side) and I believe it will acount for the difference you speak of.

bd popeye

That's about 8 to 10 feet gents if memory serves me correctly. I know..been there done that!

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tomcat21

For my support for the British Navy: ITS TIME FOR THE ADMIRALS TO REVOLT. To put the fist down on the table, and stand firm against the incompetent defense spenders of Britain's parliament. They need BOTH carriers, and FULL airwings of JSF's and the support aircraft. Plus the Daring class needs to go to 12, and Frigates should be brought back to at least 24 in order to create a better flexible force. After reading Popeye's posts on the brits, and Obi Wan, I feel it is time for the RN to get its prestige back. The QUEEN ELIZABETH class IS relevant in this world. Small terrorist threats exist, but new emerging or resurgent BIG FISH are coming along soon.

Obi Wan Russell

Thanks for the support. Just for the record, don't believe the stories about one of the QEs being axed, downgraded to an LPH or sold to India. All pure BS from the fevered minds of bored and ill informed journos. Both QE class will be built, both will be completed to full operational capability and both will be commissioned into the RN. At present, the first tranche of F-35Bs is likely to number around 60 aircraft, to provide IOC by 2018 which will mean a single air group (2-3 frontline sqns plus OCU and attrition spares). This was always the plan though, that there would be one 'on call' carrier available to deploy at short notice, and the second would either be in refit or at longer notice to deploy, as relief for the first carrier or if needed as a 'mega LPH' (a capability designed into both ships from the start, just as with the Invincible class). There is always the possibility of buying more F-35Bs when finances improve several years from now, as the production lines will be running for a long time yet. At present, The UK has placed orders for only three F-35Bs as part of the trials programme. We are also the only tier 1 partner in the JSF programme, so in effect we (the UK) will be getting our Lightnings virtually free once profits from global sales are taken into account...

Annouced a few days ago, one Harrier GR9 sqn is to disband (likely to be IV sqn) leaving 1sqn and the NSW (800/801NAS) as well as the Harrier OCU 20 sqn, which will have to move down the road to RAF Wittering as RAF Cottesmore is to close in a couple of years. An OSD for tha Harrier force has been suggested as 2016, but this is two years before the F-35B is due to reach IOC so expect this date to be revised especially after next years change of government...

Under current plans the RAF's Merlin HC3/3a force is to be transferred to the CHF and 'marinised' (folding rotors and tails, plus tie down points) to replace the current Sea King HC4/HAS6Cs which are wearing out after thirty years of service (many of those in service today served in the Falklands in 82!). The RAF RW sqns will become all Chinook with about 70 airframes, the RN will operate only Merlins (HM2s for ASW, HC4s for the CHF and probably ASaC5s for AEW) and Lynx Wildcats for DDG/FFGs. The Army Air Corps will operate a mix of AH-64D Apaches and Lynx Wildcats. The Sea Kings are due out of service now by 2016, though of course reality has a habit of getting in the way...

Currently the RN has 42 Merlin HM1s in service, 30 of which are to be upgraded to HM2 standard. originally the plan was to upgrade 38, but the options for the last 8 were dropped. These airframes are now in line to take over from the Sea King ASaC 7s currently in service with 849, 854 and 857 NAS, but 8 is insufficient to replace the 13 SKWs in service. As there are twelve Merlins available, I think it more likely that is the number to be converted. Certainly the RN has been keen to demonstrate the utility of the ASaC force beyond traditional carrier AEW by deploying the two frontline sqns away from the carriers at every opportunity, one sqn is even now in Afganistan, where the Radar has proved very useful over (the very flat and barren) land in spotting the Taleban.

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Neutral Zone

I take it you're a bit skeptical as to what the Tories will do when they get in?

Obi Wan Russell

I'm no fan of the Tories. I grew up in the North East of England in the 70s and 80s, an area 'laid waste' by the Thatcher government on a scale Adolf Hitler could only dream about. I'm no fan of Labour either, to be fair. All politicians are a waste of skin IMHO! But to be fair, the next Defence Minister, Dr Liam Fox, is not a typical politician as far as I can see and he does unuaually appear to actually take an interest in his Brief. He has a stated position of being pro carrier, pro CVF and Lightning. An OSD of 2016 for the Harier force makes no sense, being two years before the IOC of the Lightning. Perhaps BEGINING the phase out of the Harriers in 2016 as Lightnings become available and sqns transition is more likely. In the recent defence cuts 'Bungling' Bob Ainsworth did say the remaining Harrier sqns were being retained specifically for Carrier ops and 'the details were stil to be worked out', so I expect the early OSD will be quietly dropped whoever is in power.

The sqn expected to go is IV(AC) sqn, which is currently 20% RN manned. those personnel will probably be absorbed into the NSW, so there is still the possibility of standing up 801NAS in it's own right after the election should the incoming Tory administration decide to reverse this particular cut. Alternatively the remaining two Harrier sqns could divide themselves into two flights, each the same size as one of the current sqns so the existing capability of the overall force is maintained and the government get's their (on paper) cut!

With one less Harrier sqn in service the remaining lifespan of the Harrier fleet can be extended more easily as thre are less 'users' to burn up the airframe hours. I also wouldn't be surprised if the two remaining Harrier frontline sqns slowly an quietly increased in size over the next couple years so that the actual numbers of aircraft in the 'frontline' remained the same...

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Jeff Head

They have commissioned one of the Hyuga Class, the Hyuga, and are conducting sea trials on the second, the Ise.

Here's my favorite pic of the already commissioned Hyuga:


There are now reports that the Japanese are considering building two even larger carriers, the 22DDH project.

bd popeye

Nice photo Jeff! Question..did you PS those helos flying about? Just curious..

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Totoro

That larger project, according to reports, should be some kind of a LHD, very similar in size (and capabilities?) to US Wasp class. Though it's not clear yet if it will have a flooded deck, which, if it doesn't have it, will put it more in line with Italian Cavour class carrier. Anyway,

Hyuga was always too small to ever really use f35 in a decent manner. The new class, hower, could potentially operate f35b, if needed. And, naturally, if japan decides to purchase some. (commonality with f35a for the air force?)

Jeff Head

Thanks popeye. I did not PS the helos. If you zoom in on the full image, you can see that each is at a slightly different orientation to the camera (as they would be in real life).

I got the pic off of the US Navy site:

Navy News Service - Eye on the Fleet - http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=78681

It's of the Hyuga underway on November 17, 2009.

bd popeye

Thanks Jeff! I musta missed that one!

I know you and your family had a Very Merry Christmas! My best wishes to you and yours this Holiday Season!

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Ambivalent

Looks like a little US Navy flying honor guard for Hyuga.

Jeff Head

That they are. In fact, Sea Hawk helicopters from Helicopter Anti-Submarine Squadron (HS) 14, forward deployed out of NAS Atsugi and off of the USS George Washington.

That squadron is unique because it is the largest Helicopter Anti-Submarine squadron in the US Navy, with 12 helicopters. Most HS squadrons have 7 or 8 helicopters.