Aircraft Carriers II

Originally Posted by e-x-e

I was just wondering if the Japanese have V/STOL Air Craft Carrier …what kind of reaction will Chinese have if they parked JSF on board? Can anyone give me the operational radius of vertically takeoff JSF?


And I found some interesting picture of so called submarine air craft carrier; it looks childish, but come to think about it, it is quite possible with today’s technology to build one
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/odd/index2.htm
the idea is, of course use submarine to carry aircraft.
And I think it is quite possible for JSF to vertically land on an open shell type of platform, or just vertically lunch future aircraft like a missile.
Imagination is what moves the technology forward…

exe, you pic is a red x.

the japanese built the I-400 class subs in ww2. they were huge subs, with dozend of torpedoes and guns. they could also carry three aichi seran torpedo bombers in their special hanger. the japs built four of these and planned to use it on a sneak attack on panama canal. but the subs got deverted to okinawa instead.

Originally Posted by e-x-e

I was just wondering if the Japanese have V/STOL Air Craft Carrier …what kind of reaction will Chinese have if they parked JSF on board? Can anyone give me the operational radius of vertically takeoff JSF?


And I found some interesting picture of so called submarine air craft carrier; it looks childish, but come to think about it, it is quite possible with today’s technology to build one
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/odd/index2.htm
the idea is, of course use submarine to carry aircraft.
And I think it is quite possible for JSF to vertically land on an open shell type of platform, or just vertically lunch future aircraft like a missile.
Imagination is what moves the technology forward…

well, it's a idea, but can you imagine the size of those kind of subs ?? it will be at least as big as a SSBN but you need place for plane and our modern plane are bigger than 60 years ago, you need fuel, lot of them, lot of ammo like missiles in spare, you need also a technical crew since the hydraulic and electronic on our modern plane need more maintenance, i'll say that a Typhoon-class SSBN, if we converted in a "sub carrier" will not be able to carry more than 3 planes,because you'll have to get room all the maintenance crew, + fuel + ammo + spare part, bd_popeye, your were on a carrier, were you ? So how many maintenance crew you have on board for each plane ? A sub of this size will be easily spotted, no ?? Not a good idea, i think...

Originally Posted by rommel

well, it's a idea, but can you imagine the size of those kind of subs ?? it will be at least as big as a SSBN but you need place for plane and our modern plane are bigger than 60 years ago, you need fuel, lot of them, lot of ammo like missiles in spare, you need also a technical crew since the hydraulic and electronic on our modern plane need more maintenance, i'll say that a Typhoon-class SSBN, if we converted in a "sub carrier" will not be able to carry more than 3 planes,because you'll have to get room all the maintenance crew, + fuel + ammo + spare part, bd_popeye, your were on a carrier, were you ? So how many maintenance crew you have on board for each plane ? A sub of this size will be easily spotted, no ??

how would you even launch the plane? it would have to vstol or vtol. and you would still need a huge deck.

Originally Posted by MIGleader

how would you even launch the plane? it would have to vstol or vtol. and you would still need a huge deck.

well, i never said that it was a good idea. but for launching you can use those rocket-powered launch ramp like the RN used during WWII on auxiliary ship, a VTOL don't a huge, their use a large deck because a more conventionnal take-off and landing take less fuel than vertical take-off and landing, but still, you need lot of place for the fuel in this case...

Originally Posted by rommel

well, it's a idea, but can you imagine the size of those kind of subs ?? it will be at least as big as a SSBN but you need place for plane and our modern plane are bigger than 60 years ago, you need fuel, lot of them, lot of ammo like missiles in spare, you need also a technical crew since the hydraulic and electronic on our modern plane need more maintenance, i'll say that a Typhoon-class SSBN, if we converted in a "sub carrier" will not be able to carry more than 3 planes,because you'll have to get room all the maintenance crew, + fuel + ammo + spare part, bd_popeye, your were on a carrier, were you ? So how many maintenance crew you have on board for each plane ? A sub of this size will be easily spotted, no ?? Not a good idea, i think...

Im talking about vertical takeoff, so the deck size don’t have to be THAT big...and Im talking about something wayyy in the future...perhaps you can lunch smaller UAVs

It can be a miniature submarine stationed deep underwater(so no sound) and when it is required, it can lunch a UAV just by floating to sea level. The submarine station and UAV can be unmanned and can be placed anywhere in the world with out being easily detected. And the submarine does not necessary requires its own power plant, you just need someone to go retract it.

Originally Posted by e-x-e

Im talking about vertical takeoff

i know that, but your vertical take-off aircraft need even more fuel than normal plane, and they need the same number at least of maintenance crewman...

Originally Posted by rommel

i know that, but your vertical take-off aircraft need even more fuel than normal plane, and they need the same number at least of maintenance crewman...

Is it that hard to make a vertical take off catapult? You just need a big fan under the platform lol
And the aircraft is getting more reliable and easier to maintain. You just need to plug into plans computer to check most of problems now.(F22…)
ok, lets end this topic, i posted this topic to talk about LPD JSF aircraft carrier

Originally Posted by e-x-e

Is it that hard to make a vertical take off catapult? You just need a big fan under the platform lol
And the aircraft is getting more reliable and easier to maintain. You just need to plug into plans computer to check most of problems now.(F22…)
ok, lets end this topic, i posted this topic to talk about LPD JSF aircraft carrier

well, a LPD is pretty small... most LPD can only carry 4-6 chopper...

Try to concentrate the chinese related part of e-x-e's post or i have to move this to world armed forces forum

if japan started operating jsf of a lpd, the chiense would counter with a full carrier. japanese lpd designs have shown themselves to be capable of handling jsf's.

the fighter has a combat radius of 600 nautical miles, twice that of the f-18.

Originally Posted by MIGleader

if japan started operating jsf of a lpd, the chiense would counter with a full carrier. japanese lpd designs have shown themselves to be capable of handling jsf's.

the fighter has a combat radius of 600 nautical miles, twice that of the f-18.

600 nautical miles combat range for an F-18? Is that with a full load? Don't forget the USN ablity to refuel at will. They do it everyday.

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_di...&tid=1200&ct=1

Super Hornet range
Range: Combat: 1,275 nautical miles (2,346 kilometers), clean plus two AIM-9s
Ferry: 1,660 nautical miles (3,054 kilometers), two AIM-9s, three 480 gallon tanks retained

Hornet range
Range: Combat: 1,089 nautical miles (1252.4 miles/2,003 km), clean plus two AIM-9s
Ferry: 1,546 nautical miles (1777.9 miles/2,844 km), two AIM-9s plus three 330 gallon tanks.

As for the JMSDF V/STOL carrier. Will the JMSDF ships carry F-35's? Maybe. But that's way off in the future. I don't think the USN will have the JDF in service until 2008. I think the PRC would just continue on it's course of building a larger navy then eventually a blue water navy. We have yet to see any VSTOL aircraft from China. But you don't need a V/STOL to counter. J-10's will have to be the ones to do the job.

combat radius is different from range. range is how far a plane can fly. radius is the circle of operation the plane can operate from its home ship.

okay boy, first, let clearify something, it couldn't be a LPD because it's too small, i think it's more a LHD, LPH or a LHA. (A LPD cannot carry more than 6 chopper and it's 4 most of the time)

Second, if Japan came out with a amphib with JSF, I think that China will already having a carrier ready with some Su-33 or J-10, I think that will not be a great threat to the PLAN, (if they have a CV ready...) because i think that the amphib is not dedicated for aircraft combat and support, it's more ground support with aircraft to help...

Having a CV and a LHD/A face of on equal terms is not even an issue. The advantages of a smaller ship equipped with a few fighters is that it can project power and provide a decent air cover for attacking long-range aviation, something that is of great help still today although SAM's are highly developed.