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bd popeye · 03-24-2007

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bd popeye super moderator

bd popeye · 04-21-2007

I found this article in a yahoogroup. It is about HMS Ocean visit to NS Norfolk VA.

The two pics on the bottom show some insight to the Ocean.

Quote:

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/0...ocean_070419w/

By Andrew Scutro - Staff writer
Posted : Friday Apr 20, 2007 12:54:18 EDT

NORFOLK, Va. — The important stuff first: British sailors are issued
three cans or "tins" of beer after work every day. The snack
machines dispense Cadbury chocolate bars. A normal lunch is curry
and rice. And when a British ship comes into port, the crew's rugby
team goes ashore to scrounge up a game with the locals.

This week and into next, the English amphibious assault ship Ocean
is to be in Norfolk for the city's Azalea Festival, and its crew has
been hosting a variety of visitors during its stay.

At 667 feet long and 22,500 tons, Ocean is the United Kingdom's
largest warship. It can carry up to 22 helicopters; four landing
craft; up to 40 Land Rovers and their trailers; and six 105 mm light
guns for embarked Royal Marines. The ship's company numbers 400
sailors, along with room for 600 Royal Marines and 300 from the air
wing. It was built in 1998 and technically called a landing
platform, helicopter.

Besides exotic food and a daily beer ration, the ship itself differs
from American counterparts in several ways, very noticeably in the
ladder wells. Traffic goes both up and down on double-wide stairs.
Passageways around the hangar deck, known as "assault routes," are
very wide to accommodate Royal Marines in full kit. And the aircraft
elevator travels between the hangar deck and the flight deck from
within the ship, not jutting off the side, as on American carriers.

Berthing for the embarked military force is divided into relatively
spacious compartments with racks stacked three high, weapons lockers
and a small lounge area with a television and plenty of magazines.

The bridge has windows on four sides, making it very well lit from
the outside. It's manned by an officer of the watch, a communicator,
a quartermaster and a boatswain's mate. A corner of the bridge deck
overhangs the flight deck where an air operations element works.

Able Bodied Seaman 1st Class Daniel Heredia-Keay, 24, joined the
Royal Navy when he was 19. A warfare specialist, he said that with
only a few sailors on the bridge watch at a time, "it's nice and
quiet."

The Ocean left Plymouth, England in mid-March. After passing down
the west coast of Africa, it crossed the Atlantic and did an
information-gathering mission in the Caribbean before steaming north
for Norfolk.

Cmdr. Robert Gray, who handles logistics aboard the Ocean, said the
Caribbean mission is done in conjunction with the U.S. Navy and
Coast Guard.

"It's part of our partnership with the U.S.," he said.

The Ocean returns to the Caribbean after leaving Norfolk and is
expected back in Plymouth by July. The Ocean is the sixth ship in
the Royal Navy to bear that name

Obi Wan Russell · 04-21-2007

Apparently the choice of food aboard RN ships these days is so it can be eaten quickly and easily in case of a call to action stations, although that sailor could have been pulling my leg! The extra wide access ways in Ocean have been repeated throughout the Amphibious force (the Albions and the Bays) and I would be surprised if US Amphibs didn't do the same these days. The lifts have an upper level 'stop' at gallery deck level (sandwiched between the hangar and the flight deck) which allows casualties to be taken to sickbay quickly without having to cross the hangar deck itself. She has a loading ramp aft so that vehicles can be loaded at the quayside without the need for specialist facilities. She can operate Harriers (the Harrier family was designed to operate from clearings in woods with support facilities in the back of a truck and maintenance crew in a tent, so suggestions that she is less suitable are somewhat strange. Ski jumps help, but are not essential.) The hull at waterline level was modified a few years ago below the aft landing craft recess so that they can be launched whilst the ship is underway (previously the ships wake tended to push the landing craft back under the overhang aft).

All this, and she was bought for the price of a frigate, illustrating how much of the cost of a modern warship is taken up by Radars, SAM systems, SSMs, ESM, bells and whistles etc. I still don't believe that the CVFs will actually cost £1.9Billion to build, most of that will disappear into 'other costs'. HMS Ark Royal was delivered in 1985 for £220million (inc lots of 'bells and whistles') and the original 1998 quote for the CVFs was £740million each. My guess is that hasn't really changed too much, but a lot of people connected to the project have very nice shiny cars and fat pensions...

Nurse! My medication! I'm starting to feel paranoid again...

bd popeye · 04-21-2007

From the discription the HMS Ocean seems to have many of the atributes of a USN amphib.

In Nov 2001 I worked on a movie called Antwone Fisher. Most of the at sea scenes were shot on board the now sunk USS Belleau Wood LHA-3 over a six day period. That was my first visit on an LHA and I must say the ship is quite spacious. Plenty of room for the Marines to move about. An impressive ship.

That reminds me..Anyone want an LHA?? The USN has now decomissioned another LHA. This upsets me. Because her replacement the Makin Island will not be comissioned until next year.

USS Siapan LHA-2 is now decomissioned. She will be used for some weapons testing. Probally as a target.

Quote:

http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=28980

Decommissioning Ends USS Saipan’s 29 Years of Service
Story Number: NNS070420-18
Release Date: 4/20/2007 2:30:00 PM

By Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Joseph R. Wax, Fleet Public Affairs Center Atlantic

NORFOLK (NNS) -- The Navy bid farewell to the amphibious assault ship USS Saipan (LHA 2), April 20 in a decommissioning ceremony at Naval Station Norfolk.

During its 29 year career, the ship’s primary mission was to transport Marine Corps forces. However, Saipan was also involved in providing evacuation and disaster relief when needed.

“We are here today to honor the history and legacy of this fine ship, but more importantly the people who served on it,” said Saipan Commanding Officer Capt. Richard Fitzpatrick. “The decommissioning signals the end of an era. We honor the men and women who gave their time, service and in some cases, their lives.”

Saipan was commissioned Oct. 15, 1977, and made the first Mediterranean deployment by an amphibious assault ship in 1980. The ship deployed eight more times to the Mediterranean and deployed to the Persian Gulf multiple times in support of operations Desert Storm, Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom.

In 1990, Saipan participated in the evacuation of approximately 1,600 civilians from Liberia in support of Operation Sharp Edge. Saipan provided a presence in the Adriatic Sea during the 2000 federal elections in Yugoslavia, and gave support to the first ever U.S.-Croatian exercise. In 2005, it deployed to Haiti where it offloaded Seabees from Naval Mobile Construction Battalion (NMCB) One, and nearly 1,200 tons of equipment used to rebuild schools and wells in the hurricane-ravaged country. In December 2006, Saipan returned from its final deployment.

“As the world continues to evolve so too must the Navy,” said Rear Adm. Michael Nowakowski, former Saipan commanding officer and current President, Board of Inspection and Survey. “This evolution of continual change drives the process of commissions and decommissions.”

Saipan was the second U.S. ship to bear the name. Its predecessor, the carrier Saipan (CVL 48), served from July 1946 to January 1970. The name Saipan was taken from an integral WWII battle on the island of Saipan.

Saipan and its Sailors received numerous awards during its 29 years of service, including six Battle “E” awards, three Armed Forces Expeditionary Medals and the Humanitarian Service Medal.

“Without its crew it is just 40,000 tons of welded steel,” said Fitzpatrick. “Saipan’s legacy is going to live on through these fine professionals.”

Saipan will be used for weapons effect testing, providing vital information on structural integrity and survivability which will assist in the designing and planning of future ships. After the tests have been conducted it will be transferred to the inactive fleet.

“You have served your nation and the Navy well,” Nowakowski said during his closing remarks. “The Sailors from your 19 crews will keep alive your legacy; Fair Winds and Following Seas.”

For more news from around the fleet, visit www.navy.mil.

bd popeye · 04-21-2007

I found these pics of the seldom seen Thia CV on the US DoD web site. They were taken in 2001.

The Royal Thai Naval vessel HTMS CHAKRINARUEBET (CVH 911) in the South China Sea. (Released to Public) DoD photo by: PH3 ALEX C. WITTE, USN Date Shot: 3 Apr 2001

Tasman · 04-21-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obi Wan Russell

All this, and she was bought for the price of a frigate, illustrating how much of the cost of a modern warship is taken up by Radars, SAM systems, SSMs, ESM, bells and whistles etc. I still don't believe that the CVFs will actually cost £1.9Billion to build, most of that will disappear into 'other costs'. HMS Ark Royal was delivered in 1985 for £220million (inc lots of 'bells and whistles') and the original 1998 quote for the CVFs was £740million each. My guess is that hasn't really changed too much, but a lot of people connected to the project have very nice shiny cars and fat pensions...

Ocean certainly seems to be excellent value and whilst she (like the old USN LPHs) has been criticised by some for not having a dock well she has been designed to operate in company with other amphibious ships so I think the criticism is unfair. Compared with a ski jump fitted Invincible she may not be able to operate Harriers as efficiently but she would still be able to do so if required, albeit with reduced fuel/weapons loads. Her ability to act as a spare deck for Harriers and/or helos operating from other ships would also be valuable

I think this kind of vessel would be a very useful asset to act as a command and support ship for units carrying out the type of mission being performed by Cornwall when its boarding party was captured. It would be able to provide considerable helo support as well as armed response teams of Royal Marines, whilst not being nearly as expensive or crew hungry as a large carrier. Ships of this type can also switch to a sea control role which demonstrates the versatility of ships able to embark aviation assets in reasonable numbers.

It is interesting to see that a number of countries (other than the USA) are now building amphibious ships with helo and VSTOL capability (e.g. the French Mistral and the Spanish BPE, the design of one of which will be selected by Australia which will acquire two ships for the RAN).

Cheers

bd popeye · 04-21-2007

Excellent post Tasman!

One thing however;

Quote:

It is interesting to see that a number of countries (other than the USA) are now building amphibious ships with helo and VSTOL capability (e.g. the French Mistral and the Spanish BPE, the design of one of which will be selected by Australia which will acquire two ships for the RAN).

The US is building one more LHD, the Makin Island. She will be comissioned in May 2008... I believe.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...navy/lhd-8.htm

She will be a cross over ship. That is having many of the systems of the Wasp class but a new gas turbine main propulsion engines, all electric auxiliaries, an advanced machinery control system, water mist fire protection systems, and the Navy’s most advanced command and control and combat systems equipment.

Next up for the USN will be the new LHA(R)..The R is for replacement.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...s/ship/lhx.htm

Quote:

The LHA(R) will replace the LHA 1 class of amphibious assault ships, and will have the flexibility to operate in the traditional role as the flagship for an Expeditionary Strike Group as well as potentially playing a key role in the maritime pre-positioning force future (MPF(F)). As the Navy's Seabasing plan matures, the flexibility to operate with the Expeditionary Strike Group and as part of the MPF(F) will make the LHA(R) a vital cog in the Sea Base. LHA(R) will be a variant of the gas turbine-powered LHD 8. The one key difference of LHA(R) from LHD 8 is that it will be an aviation-enhanced assault ship tailored for the US Marine Corps future Aviation Combat Element centered on the STOVL F-35B Joint Strike Fighter and the tilt-rotor V-22 Osprey.

I just hope that the USN actually does replace the Tarawas with these ships. However, with todays military budget constraints some ships of this class may be never be built.

Just my opinion.

Tasman · 04-21-2007

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bd popeye

One thing however;

The US is building one more LHD, the Makin Island. She will be comissioned in May 2008... I believe.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...navy/lhd-8.htm

She will be a cross over ship. That is having many of the systems of the Wasp class but a new gas turbine main propulsion engines, all electric auxiliaries, an advanced machinery control system, water mist fire protection systems, and the Navy’s most advanced command and control and combat systems equipment.

You are right, I should have said, 'as well as the USN!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by bd popeye

Next up for the USN will be the new LHA(R)..The R is for replacement.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...s/ship/lhx.htm

I just hope that the USN actually does replace the Tarawas with these ships. However, with todays military budget constraints some ships of this class may be never be built.

Just my opinion.

I agree about the Tarawa's. It would be highly desirable for them to be replaced on a one for one basis. I find it interesting that the design of the LHA(R) seems to have been optimised for aviation operations at the expense of landing craft. However, as they will be part of a balanced amphibious force, I can see the arguments in favour of having some aviation enhanced ships in this force.

Cheers

IDonT · 04-21-2007

The Italian Cavour at sea trials

IDonT · 04-21-2007

Japan is building a "DDH" aka flattop

Tasman · 04-22-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by IDonT

Japan is building a "DDH" aka flattop

http://www.jeffhead.com/worldwideair...ers/16ddh1.jpg

http://www.jeffhead.com/worldwideair...ers/16ddh5.jpg

Is there a constitutional reason why this ship is being classified as a destroyer? As far as I can see it is a small sea control helicopter carrier. Apart from its helos its weapons mix comprises ASW systems (Asroc and TT) and self defence systems (Sea Sparrow and CIWS). This doesn't seem to fit the role of a modern destroyer.

Cheers

Scratch · 04-22-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tasman

Is there a constitutional reason why this ship is being classified as a destroyer? As far as I can see it is a small sea control helicopter carrier. Apart from its helos its weapons mix comprises ASW systems (Asroc and TT) and self defence systems (Sea Sparrow and CIWS). This doesn't seem to fit the role of a modern destroyer.

We've talked about that earlier. This vessel definitely has sea-controll capabilities. And I believe the poltical need to be only defensive in all aspects plays a key role here.
Maybe they want it to be seen as an ASW DD because of the number of helos it can carry. I think four are proposed.

Quote:

I find it interesting that the design of the LHA(R) seems to have been optimised for aviation operations at the expense of landing craft. However, as they will be part of a balanced amphibious force, I can see the arguments in favour of having some aviation enhanced ships in this force.

Probably a step to aquire sea-controll-capability without the need to deploy a super-carrier. I think there's definitely room for ships that offer a combination of sea-controll and amphib-assault capabilities.

two Harriers taking of from USS Essex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhowrg-bI5w

bd popeye · 04-23-2007

Moderators note >>. For those of you newer members>>> please browse through our first outstanding carrier thread.

Excellent discussion and pictures in there!

Aircraft Carriers

Quote:

I find it interesting that the design of the LHA(R) seems to have been optimised for aviation operations at the expense of landing craft. However, as they will be part of a balanced amphibious force, I can see the arguments in favour of having some aviation enhanced ships in this force.

When the LHA(R) program does come to fruition the LHA(R) when operating with the highly capable LPD-17 class will be a very potent amphib force.

I agree with the previous posters in that the new LHA(R) is more avation capable. Perhaps in the future we will see an all F-35 & V-22 air wing on an LHA(R). perhaps 10+ years from now.

I am some what puzzled

by the lack of a well deck. Without a well deck you have a aircraft carrier that can haul vehicles and troops. I envision these ships carrying up to 36 JSF and 6+ V-22. As I mentioned this class will be grouped with an LPD-17 class.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...s/ship/lhx.htm

Anyone agree or disagree?

bd popeye · 04-23-2007

This is a terrfic picture!

Ships from four nations sail in formation during the NATO Southern Region exercise Dragon Hammer '90. In the left foreground is the amphibious assault ship USS SAIPAN (LHA-2). In the background are, from left: the Spanish aircraft carrier SPS PRINCIPE DE ASTURIAS (R-11), the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER (CVN-69), the Italian light aircraft carrier ITS GIUSEPPE GARIBALDI (C-551) and the British light aircraft carrier HMS INVINCIBLE (R-05). (Released to Public)

Jeff Head · 04-23-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by bd popeye

[COLOR="Blue"]
I am some what puzzled

by the lack of a well deck. Without a well deck you have a aircraft carrier that can haul vehicles and troops. I envision these ships carrying up to 36 JSF and 6+ V-22. As I mentioned this class will be grouped with an LPD-17 class.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...s/ship/lhx.htm

Anyone agree or disagree?

I do not know for sure that the "Aviation Variant" A/V mentioned in the Global Security document has been finalized yet , but I believe it is close if it hasn't already been done.

But, since they are calling it a "variant", then that implies that there will also be some of the LHA(R) that do have well decks. Perhaps only two or three will be the Aviation Variants.

Just the same, for those vessels that have no no well deck, then those particular LHA(R)s will not be able to land any heavy armor (tanks) and will have to depend on the Wasp class or the San Antonio class for that function. Perhaps that is the intent, in which case, with more aircraft capability, particularly JSF, these LHA(R)s will have more strike capability for the US Marines in terms of air support during and after the landing when no airfield or CVN is available.

We'll have to see. Right now if you go to the

US Navy Program Executive Office web site regarding the LHA(R)

...it does not mention the aviation variant and indicates that the specifications for the ships are still yet to be determined.

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