Aircraft Carriers II

An interview with the prospective commanding officer of the ship, Captain Robert Hall, Jr. He discuses integration with new technologies briefly. They mention three other interviews with other officers regarding USS America as well, I am not sure if they have published them yet or not. I m not seeing links to them.

Please remove the space after the 'h' and first 'w' for the link.
h ttp://w ww.sldinfo.com/captain-hall-discusses-the-uss-america-looking-towards-the-future/

Originally Posted by Air Force Brat

Who would float the evolved Aircraft Carrier? Oh and thanks for posting Reco, I wouldn't have seen these otherwise.

Well, perhaps the Indians will, or Brazilians.

The Indians have already launched the hull of their first ADC in Cochin.

INS VIKRANT HULL LAUNCHED

and they are now ready to start the second one. That vessel looks a lot like a the flat deck, catobar version of the first one that they intend for the second, they would be well served to team up with DCN and build it in Cochin.

Here's how the Vikrant will look...seems very close:

INS VIKRANT COMPLETED DEPICTION

Originally Posted by bd popeye

The X-47B is a long way from being deployed on a CVN.. A long way.

First off there are only two aircraft built. Two.

Second there's no funding in place to build any others. Zero green American dollars.

Third.. the first carrier quals are due to take place sometime next year..that's the plan..

Yep, the initial contract called for a six-year $635.8 million contract developing of two fighter-sized, long-range, high endurance aircraft designated the X-47B.

Test activities are currently in progress (as seen in numerous photos on this board and the subject of an entiore thread of its own) that will lead to completion of the Navy's carrier launch and recovery objectives by 2013.

Successful completion of those at-sea trials will set the stage for potential follow-on acquisition programs and operational production in the 2016-2018 time frame. So the earlies you would have any operational follow-on to the X-47B is slarted for 2018 at the earliest. At least anothe six years.

That's when we may see real, operational pictures of the following (though we may see some test/qual pictures next year of the prototypes):

X-47B Depiction of Carrier Take Off

An official mini site on CdeG deployement off Lybia during operation "Harmatan"
index

There are some cool pictures.

Click at the top on "Théatres", then on the icons on the left...

Enterprise Carrier Strike Group to Return to Norfolk

NORFOLK, Va. (NNS) -- More than 5,500 Sailors and Marines assigned to the Enterprise Carrier Strike Group (CSG) are scheduled to arrive in Norfolk, Va., Nov. 4, following a seven-and-a-half-month deployment supporting operations in the Mediterranean and the Arabian Seas.

USS Enterprise's return to Norfolk will be the 25th and final homecoming in her 51 years of distinguished service. The aircraft carrier is scheduled to be inactivated Dec. 1, in a ceremony at Norfolk Naval Station, in Norfolk, Va.

"Homecoming will no doubt be a bittersweet day," said Capt. William C. Hamilton, Enterprise commanding officer. "We are pleased to be returning to our families after a very successful deployment, but to know that it is the last time Enterprise will be underway through her own power makes our return very sentimental."

While deployed, Enterprise CSG served in the U.S. 5th and 6th Fleet areas of responsibility (AOR), conducting maritime security operations, theater security cooperation efforts and missions in support of Operation Enduring Freedom.

During her 238 days away from Norfolk, "Big E," as Enterprise is affectionately known, safely steamed 80,968 miles and Carrier Air Wing 1 (CVW-1) flew more than 8,000 sorties in support of Operation Enduring Freedom and exercises in the 5th and 6th Fleet AORs.

"This has not been a victory lap for Enterprise by any means," said Rear Adm. Ted Carter, Enterprise Carrier Strike Group commander. "This has been a full-on combat operation. We've seen the full spectrum of Navy operations on this deployment. It's been a business as usual kind of deployment."

Enterprise was commissioned Nov. 25, 1961 as the eighth ship to bear the name Enterprise. Big E was the world's first nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. During her 51 years of service, Enterprise deployed 25 times and participated in every major conflict since the Cuban Missile Crisis. Enterprise has been homeported in both Alameda, Calif., and Norfolk, Va., and conducted operations in every region of the world.

The December inactivation ceremony will be the last official public event for Enterprise, and will serve as a celebration of life for the ship and the more than 100,000 Sailors who have served aboard the ship. All Enterprise veterans, their families, shipyard workers, and friends are invited to register to attend the inactivation week events and the ceremony on the ship's website, www.enterprise.navy.mil. Tickets to the events will be on a first available basis.

Enterprise CSG is comprised of: Commander, Carrier Strike Group 12, the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (CVN 65), CVW 1, Destroyer Squadron 2, guided-missile destroyers USS Porter (DDG 78), USS Nitze (DDG 94), and USS James E. Williams (DDG 95).

The squadrons of CVW 1 embarked aboard Enterprise are: Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 11 "Red Rippers," VFA-136 "Knighthawks," VFA-211 "Fighting Checkmates," Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 251 "Thunderbolts," Carrier Airborne Early Warning Squadron 123 "Screwtops," Carrier Tactical Electronic Warfare Squadron 137 "Rooks," Fleet Logistics Support Squadron 40 "Rawhides," and Helicopter Anti-Submarine Squadron 11 "Dragonslayers."

I raised the question regarding MiG-29K & Rafale-M mainly due to the fact that none of the probable aircraft (J-31 or J-15) is a matured product like the other two. If J-31 is the proposed fighter, it would mean Liaoning will be without a proper air-wing for at least 18 months. So my though was, would it not have been better to get two squadrons of those aircraft and built up the capability. The only thing lacking for PLAN is actual deck operation where as there should not be any doubt that they will learn fast operating the carrier. But it is the air component that is the main task and without good number of aircraft, operating/learning a proper carrier operation looks too far away for PLAN. Once they get deck based aircraft, I'm certain that they will learn the basics fast and evolve, but the non-availability of a matured carrier based aircraft to aid that development is the main draw back here.


Regarding MiG-29K, it was a multi-role aircraft to start with, compared to its Sukhoi counterpart Su-33. It was not even a contest on which was technically superior. The original plan was to equip their new carrier Ulyanovsk with Su-33 (air-defence) & MiG-29K (multi-role/strike), but the tightening of the budget meant a choice had to be made between the two. So the decision was between a multi-role combat aircraft whose main weapons development was not complete which demanded more funds & time and an air-defence fighter with its armaments ready. Due to the financial situation prevailing, the multi-role/strike component got eliminated and it probably became a contest between MiG-29K & Su-33 for air-defence role. In this role Su-33 with its longer range & to an extent lower approach speed made it on to the deck.

Present MiG-29K have nothing much to do with the original MiG-29s (9.12).
MiG-29M (9.15) 1986
MiG-29K (9.31) 1988
MiG-29K (9.41) 2008

MiG-29M that flew in 1986 was a multi-role aircraft completely different from the earlier model, including larger fuel capacity. MiG-29K was a further development of this MiG-29M. The developments from these projects and systems developed for these multi-role fighter made the SD/SE & SMT packages in the early 90s for the MiG-29s. So there was only one multi-role fighter of new generation in the late 80s and that was MiG-29 & 29K. Sukhoi was a purely air-defence fighter. It was from the SMT package derived from the 29M & 29K programmes that Sukhoi developed/based its on multi-role packages for the Flankers.
Also, conclusions that MiG-29K is the worst aircraft after Sea Harriers could not have come from a working unit inside head. If we are to come to such a view due to the capability that came with size difference, we can arrive at a similar conclusion that a J-20 based naval fighter would have been better than J-31 based.


Btw... today is a special day for MiG-29K (& Su-33) program. 23 years ago, on 1st Nov 1989, MiG-29K (9.31) made its first carrier landing.

From 32:22 onwards deck based fighter aircraft are featured, starting with Yak-36 experimental aircraft.

Originally Posted by Bose

I raised the question regarding MiG-29K & Rafale-M mainly due to the fact that none of the probable aircraft (J-31 or J-15) is a matured product like the other two. If J-31 is the proposed fighter, it would mean Liaoning will be without a proper air-wing for at least 18 months. So my though was, would it not have been better to get two squadrons of those aircraft and built up the capability. The only thing lacking for PLAN is actual deck operation where as there should not be any doubt that they will learn fast operating the carrier. But it is the air component that is the main task and without good number of aircraft, operating/learning a proper carrier operation looks too far away for PLAN. Once they get deck based aircraft, I'm certain that they will learn the basics fast and evolve, but the non-availability of a matured carrier based aircraft to aid that development is the main draw back here.


Regarding MiG-29K, it was a multi-role aircraft to start with, compared to its Sukhoi counterpart Su-33. It was not even a contest on which was technically superior. The original plan was to equip their new carrier Ulyanovsk with Su-33 (air-defence) & MiG-29K (multi-role/strike), but the tightening of the budget meant a choice had to be made between the two. So the decision was between a multi-role combat aircraft whose main weapons development was not complete which demanded more funds & time and an air-defence fighter with its armaments ready. Due to the financial situation prevailing, the multi-role/strike component got eliminated and it probably became a contest between MiG-29K & Su-33 for air-defence role. In this role Su-33 with its longer range & to an extent lower approach speed made it on to the deck.

Present MiG-29K have nothing much to do with the original MiG-29s (9.12).
MiG-29M (9.15) 1986
MiG-29K (9.31) 1988
MiG-29K (9.41) 2008

MiG-29M that flew in 1986 was a multi-role aircraft completely different from the earlier model, including larger fuel capacity. MiG-29K was a further development of this MiG-29M. The developments from these projects and systems developed for these multi-role fighter made the SD/SE & SMT packages in the early 90s for the MiG-29s. So there was only one multi-role fighter of new generation in the late 80s and that was MiG-29 & 29K. Sukhoi was a purely air-defence fighter. It was from the SMT package derived from the 29M & 29K programmes that Sukhoi developed/based its on multi-role packages for the Flankers.
Also, conclusions that MiG-29K is the worst aircraft after Sea Harriers could not have come from a working unit inside head. If we are to come to such a view due to the capability that came with size difference, we can arrive at a similar conclusion that a J-20 based naval fighter would have been better than J-31 based.

Btw... today is a special day for MiG-29K (& Su-33) program. 23 years ago, on 1st Nov 1989, MiG-29K (9.31) made its first carrier landing.

Just looking at Mig-29K vs Su-33 angle alone.

You are right that Mig-29K benefits from the Mig-29M program and that the Russians subsystems for multi-role fighter weren't ready at the time. In fact, they weren't ready until probably the middle of the past decade.

All of the so called multi-role capabilities of Mig-29K can be put on Su-33 aircraft. If you can put that money on Mig-29K project, you can do the same on an upgraded Su-33 project. And if you looked at Su-33 project, they've flown Su-27kub with more modern phased array radar that could support multi-role capabilities. Similarly, the J-15 project would most likely carry an AESA radar with radar modes supporting multi-role functionality and capable of carrying all of the anti-ship missiles, cruise missiles and PGMs that are available for any PLANAF fighter jet. And frankly, the multi-role profiles available to Mig-29Ks doesn't match that of J-15 at the moment due to the greater diversity of Chinese weaponry from recent year and also to the great payload of J-15.

There was a competition between J-10 and J-11 project for the first generation of naval fighter and J-11 won out due to its greater versatility despite the fact that J-10 routinely crush J-11 in A2A combat. For something like flanker platform, you can really do a lot of things in the future like creating an EW version of the aircraft, a naval bomber version based on J-16, use it for buddy to buddy refueler.

And in terms of air combat, I think it would be pretty hard to argue that Mig-29K would be better in that role if Mig-29K and Su-33 are using a similar generation of electronics and missiles. The Soviets considered Su-27 to be the better air superiority platform. They wouldn't even export it when they exported hundreds of Mig-29s. And in the recent years, when countries had the choice of flankers or fulcrums, they've overwhelmingly chosen flankers.

When I say Mig-29K is the worst naval fighter, I was simply comparing it to F-35, Rafale-M, F-18E/F and naval flankers. In terms of platform, I just don't think it matches up with them.

Originally Posted by Obi Wan Russell

Sad end for Navy's former flagship HMS Ark Royal which is to be turned into pots, pans and razor blades | The Sun |News|Campaigns|Our Boys


So Ark is to be scrapped, Illustrious is to be preserved (believe it when I see it) and according to Lord West, Ark's name will now be free for a new warship... PoW? Fingers crossed!

Unfortunately this is the fate of most aircraft carriers (other than US ones). After years of dedicated service they are converted to pots and pans, which are then sold in Ikea. Destroyers and frigates end up as reefs

Some news on the british carrier front

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

Hammond: Keep Both Carriers in Royal Navy Service
Nov. 1, 2012 - 11:43AM | By ANDREW CHUTER

LONDON — British Defence Secretary Philip Hammond has thrown his weight behind the Royal Navy operating both of the new aircraft carriers once the new Queen Elizabeth class warships enter service starting late this decade.

Hammond said no decision would be taken before the 2015 strategic defense review on whether the second carrier would be retained for use by the Royal Navy, but the “relatively modest” additional £70 million pounds ($112.7 million) annual cost of having the two warships available is an “extremely good investment,” he told the Royal United Services Institute annual air power conference in London Nov 1.
The British government’s decision earlier this year to switch back to purchasing the short take-off, vertical-landing variant of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter meant there was now “a realistic possibility of both carriers coming into service,” said Hammond.

[...]

Hammond also used his speech to settle a row between the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy over exactly how many jets should be routinely deployed on board the aircraft carrier once it enters service.
The British F-35 fleet will be operated by a joint RAF/RN force. The exact number of aircraft to be purchased initially remains unclear, but media reports have put the figure at between 40 and 48.
The RAF has been arguing for a small number of aircraft to be routinely deployed on the carrier in the early years as the overall fleet of aircraft is built up. The number is unknown, but one RN source said it was in single figures.
Hammond appeared to end the debate, saying the RN would “routinely embark 12 jets when deployed outside home waters with an ability to surge that number higher in periods of tension.” ...

If going back to STOVL was the price for retaining two carriers in active service with the RN, than I guess it was probably worth it. Although certainty on the issue is still far away.
The benefits of increased availability by having two (big) carriers outweigh the disadvantage of decreased strike & AEW potential, even from a "grant" european perspective.
Even though, having three instead of just one full up CV(N) in europe would have been a great capability boost.

Originally Posted by Miragedriver

Unfortunately this is the fate of most aircraft carriers (other than US ones). After years of dedicated service they are converted to pots and pans, which are then sold in Ikea. Destroyers and frigates end up as reefs

A lucky few aircraft carriers might get to become Chinese hotels and theme parks, like the Minsk and Kiev.

The 'Big E' comes home for the last time | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

By Mike Hixenbaugh
The Virginian-Pilot
© November 4, 2012

ABOARD THE ENTERPRISE

This massive ship was covered in red lead paint and sitting on a dry dock in Newport News the first time Ray Godfrey laid eyes on it.

The sailor was a 21-year-old high school drop out.

Now 73, Godfrey teared up Sunday while standing on the bridge of the world’s first nuclear-powered aircraft carrier as he watched a young helmsman steer the Enterprise toward its final homecoming.

From the tower, Godfrey looked down on thousands of cheering family members who had arrived hours earlier at Pier 12 at Norfolk Naval Station to welcome the ship and its crew home after an eight-month deployment – the ship’s 25th and final.

Fifty years ago, Godfrey took part in a similar scene when the ship sailed home to Norfolk after its maiden deployment – participating in the naval blockade during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Godfrey was one of two “plank owners” – Navy parlance for an original member of a ship’s crew – who joined the historic ship this week on the final leg of its final voyage.

The Enterprise will be inactivated during a ceremony on Dec. 1 before being tugged to Newport News, where it will be gutted at the shipyard that built it a half-century ago.

“This is an honor that I can’t begin to describe,” said Godfrey, who was invited aboard by the captain. “This ship means so much to me. This is where I learned what it means to be a man.”

On the pier, members of the last crew the ship will ever know weren’t thinking about the historic significance. Like every ship homecoming, they were focused on running into the arms of spouses and kissing sons and daughters they’d be meeting for the first time.

The time for reflection will come later, said Petty Officer 3rd Class Mustafa Joseph, before leaving the ship to greet his mother.

“It is a big deal,” he said. “This ship is historic; it’s where I started my Navy career. Right now, I’m just excited to see my family again.”

After weeks of marking sentimental moments aboard the ship – the final stop at a foreign port; the final nighttime landing; the final catapult off the flight deck – the marking of “lasts” seemed to wear on some crew members.

When asked for a recommendation on whether to eat the pizza served in the ship’s wardroom the night before docking in Norfolk, a SH-60 Seahawk pilot smiled wide. “You have to try it,” he said. “It’s historic; the ship’s last pizza!”

Although some poked fun, the level of interest in claiming a keepsake from arguably the Navy’s most famous ship is serious business.

Before the ship deployed in March, sailors dumped boxes full of old lunch trays into a trash container at the pier. A week later, a few entrepreneurial dumpster-divers were calling the trays “collectors items” and selling them for $65 a pop on eBay.

In the ship’s final days, many people drank coffee from plastic Pepsi cups after sailors and family members aboard the ship pilfered mugs stamped with the ship’s name and crest.

On the flight deck Saturday, sailors in green shirts used a circular saw to chop up the arresting cable that caught the last jet to ever touch down on the deck. Dozens lined up to grab foot-long sections of the greasy, steel wire.

Capt. Bill Hamilton, the ship’s commanding officer and the pilot who made that final landing, joked that he needed the ship’s security forces to focus on protecting the ship’s soon-to-be-historic compenents, many of which are bound for museums.

Hamilton, whose young grandson joined him onboard and occupied his chair on the bridge as the ship steamed into port, said he takes great pride in being the last man to lead the Enterprise. He choked up before taking the stage at his final all-hands meeting in the ship’s hangar bay, where he thanked the crew for working so hard to keep the old ship from falling apart.

“When I say Enterprise, I’m not talking about the chunk of steel,” Hamilton said. “I’m talking about the crew. I’m talking about the sailors and Marines that keep this ship running.”

Back in 1961, Bill Falls worked in the ship’s laundry department, a thankless but vital task then, as it is now. It was by chance that he became one of only two original crew members to ride the ship home.

The 74-year-old Hampton resident was drinking at the Elks Lodge a couple years back when he noticed a young sailor drop a few quarters into a jukebox and play an old country song by George Jones.

“I couldn’t understand why a guy so young would listen to George Jones, because he’s ancient,” Falls said.

The two got to talking, and after a number of beers, they realized they both had served on the Enterprise.

The young sailor, Petty Officer 2nd Class Wade Bauer, asked the old timer if he wanted to join him on the ship’s last tiger cruise.

“This is something I never realized would happen,” Falls said, reflecting on his short tour aboard the ship. “At the time, I didn’t think I had anything to do with history.”

In the coming months, sailors will begin pulling equipment and furniture off the carrier as a private contractor begins dismantling it.

The ship’s engines fired for the last time Sunday; jets loaded with bombs and supplies will never again launch off its sprawling flight deck. “It’s really over,” Bauer said.

As hundreds of sailors and Marines flipped off lights Saturday night and lay down on mattresses bound for recycling facilities, the voice of the ship’s chaplain, Cmdr. John Owen, crackled over the ship’s speakers for a final prayer.

Owen said he wondered exactly what the ship chaplain said in the first evening prayer 51 years earlier. “I don’t know,” he said.

“But I am confident of this: were he to be with us tonight, as Enterprise prepares to return to port for the last time, completing her service to the Navy and the nation that commissioned her, he would acknowledge that his prayers have indeed been answered.”

Mike Hixenbaugh, 757-446-2949, mike.hixenbaugh@pilotonline.com

Originally Posted by Equation

A lucky few aircraft carriers might get to become Chinese hotels and theme parks, like the Minsk and Kiev.

Well, in the US there are currently four US Aircraft Carrier museums.

Three them are Essex class carriers launched during World War II which saw combat and then modernized with angle decks, deck edge elevators, steam catapults and modern weapons that served into the 1970s. The fourth is the USS Midway which was built at the end of World War II, but too late to see combat. She was the first of a new, larger class. It too was modernized as above and served until 1992. Here they are

USS Yorktown CVS-10 Charleston, NC (1943-1972)


USS Intrepid, CVS-11, New York, NY (1943-1974)


USS Hornet, CVS-12, Alameda, CA (1943-1970)


USS Midway, CV-41, San Diego, CA (1945-1992)

A fifth is currently in progress of being made, that is of the USS John F. Kennedy, CV-67 (1967-2007) she would be preserved and maintained as a museum in Narragansett Bay, RI by the Rhode Island Aviation Hall of Fame, John F. Kennedy Aircraft Carrier Project. They have several million committed but are still looking to gather the necessary funds and get US NAVSEA approval.

Many of us are hoping, that when the time comes, the USS Enterprise, CVN-65 (1960-2013) will also be made into a museum, and we think, as the first nuclear powered aircraft carrier, we have a good chance at accomplishing it.

Many of us are hoping, that when the time comes, the USS Enterprise, CVN-65 (1960-2013) will also be made into a museum, and we think, as the first nuclear powered aircraft carrier, we have a good chance at accomplishing it.

Not going to happen Jeff. After the Big E is gutted of her nuke core which will leave a gaping hole about 300 feet long and about 75 feet wide from the hangar deck down to the 6th deck she just won't be safe. One report states there will holes cut in the flight deck.

USS Enterprise (CVN 65) Official Web Site

Q. Can the ship be turned into a museum?

A. The inactivation and defueling process will have major impacts on the structure of the ship. It is not cost-effective to return the ship to a condition that would support it becoming a museum. Additionally, the cost to maintain a ship as a museum is generally cost prohibitive.

As the ship is inactivated, equipment that may be of historic interest will be reclaimed and passed on to museums or appropriate Navy commands so ENTERPRISE’s many contributions to the nation’s defense over the past half-century are remembered.

The Scoop Deck

Despite requests from a group of veterans who wanted to make the famed carrier Enterprise a museum, prohibitively high costs will make that impossible, Military.com reported.

Because it is nuclear-powered, large sections of the ship will be removed after its decommissioning, scheduled for Dec. 1, to take out the nuclear reactors. Replacing those sections and implementing a new power system on the ship would be too expensive, likely costing tens of millions of dollars, Rear Adm. Thomas Moore, the Navy’s program executive officer for carriers, told the website.

Some artifacts, like the last flag flown over the ship, plaques and photos of the ship, will be saved and likely donated to museums for public viewing according to Naval History and Heritage Command policies.

USS Enterprise sailing off to history's scrap heap - CNN.com

"Following the inactivation period, it will be towed over to Newport News -- to Huntington Ingalls Newport News Shipbuilding -- where it will be defueled. They'll remove all the fuel from it."

The fuel will be shipped to Idaho for temporary storage, Maus said. "Sometime at a later date, it will be disposed of."

While in Newport News, some of the Enterprise's equipment will be removed then the next phase begins.

The carrier, minus planes, ammunition and a propulsion system, heads to Puget Sound, the long way.

"It will be towed around (Cape) Horn to Puget Sound, Washington," Maus said.

The Enterprise, like America's other nuclear carriers, is too big to fit through the Panama Canal, so it must round the southern-most point of South America to get to Washington State.

"It'll be a very lengthy tow," he said.

Once it reaches the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard, the long and difficult task of removing the eight reactors from the Enterprise's hold begins.

"In order to remove the reactors, it takes a lot of cutting and hacking on the ship to do that," Maus said. "They do cut through the flight deck and they may very well be cutting through the hull of the ship itself."

Once the reactors are removed, CVN-65 will be formally decommissioned.