Aircraft Carriers II

Thanks for the research Jeff and good job Jackliu for bringing that up.

The Tomcat , while beautiful and an true air superiority fighter, was a maintenance nightmare. Particular with the TF 30 engines and hydraulics on the A models. The GE F110-400 engines were better but still required heavy maintenance.

Originally Posted by bd popeye

The Tomcat , while beautiful and an true air superiority fighter, was a maintained nightmare. Particular with the TF 30 engines and hydraulics on the A models. The GE F110-400 engines were better but still required heavy maintenance.

Yes, I will never forget my first and only up close and personal with the big cat, some little Navy driver put on a big show in Springfield Illinois at the Air Rendezvous a number of years ago. LOTS of FULL AB action down low, wings swingin, I was most impressed by a LOW altitude, full AB turn at airshow center, he concluded the show with a pull to the near vertical and a roll through some low hanging puffy cumulus clouds. To say it was a show stopper would be a tremendous understatement, I nearly killed myself trying the same thing in my front yard in our old 172, to say it just lacked the Hoss to pull that kind of crank and bank, would be true, I had to back out of that as the force of gravity was getting the best of old blue, but I did pull through most of the first 180, wow! Anyway, may she rest in peace, she was what she was designed to be, and the real star of the movie Topgun!

The thing about a Tomcat most people do not understand.. Just today a retired US Navy Captain wrote this about the fabled Tomcat.

One last thought because it's kind of part and parcel of this conversation. The F-14 was a great airplane, but what most people don't understand is that it was just one third of an entire weapons system; the other two thirds being the AIM-54 Phoenix Missile and the E-2C Hawkeye. With Link 4A and later Link 16, both forms of tactical data links, the F-14 and E-2C onboard track while scan weapons control systems "talked" to each other without a word ever spoken by the Hawkeye crew or the RIO in the backseat of the Tomcat. I won't tell you how many targets those systems could track and engage, but let's just say it was a "grunch."

Without the Phoenix and the E-2C, the Iranian F-14s were very pretty, very expensive, and very labor intensive paper weights.

Can some one explain why the F-14 Tomcats where dropped for the F/A-18 Hornets that was a inferior plane compared to the Tomcats.

Can some one explain why the F-14 Tomcats where dropped for the F/A-18 Hornets that was a inferior plane compared to the Tomcats.

Money & maintenance.

1)Tomcats were maintenance intensive. Requiring many more man hours per flight hour of maintenance than the Hornet.

2) The USN wants a common airframe for it's air wing. That's why there an E/F-18 Growler. This makes for commonality of parts and lower cost.

3) Precision guided munitions & other "stand off weapons" and superior electronic counter measures help make the Tomcat obsolete.

The F-14 Tomcat in all her glory.


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An F-14 “Tomcat” assigned to Fighter Squadron One Four Three (VF-143) based at Naval Air Station Oceana, Virginia, returned to Naval Station Roosevelt Roads, Puerto Rico, after completing a bombing run during a training exercises in the region. Navy Photograph by Photographer’s Mate 1st Class David M. Tilton (Released)

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Tomcat at full military power. Fifth stage after-burner...

At sea aboard USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74), Jan. 2, 2002 - As the sun rises an F-14 "Tomcat" from the "Checkmates" of Fighter Squadron Two One One (VF-211) goes to full afterburner as it is launched from the flight deck of USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74). Stennis and Carrier Air Wing Nine (CVW 9) are deployed supporting Operation Enduring Freedom. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer's Mate 3rd Class (AW) Jayme Pastoric. (RELEASED)

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At sea aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71) Dec. 24, 2001-- A row of F-14 “Tomcats” assigned to the "Diamondbacks" of Fighter Squadron One Zero Two (VF 102) await their next mission. Theodore Roosevelt and her embarked Carrier Air Wing One (CVW-1) are conducting missions in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. U.S. Navy Photo by Photographer’s Mate Airman Carly Joy Cranston (Released)

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At sea aboard USS George Washington (CVN 73) Apr. 26, 2002 -- An F-14B “Tomcat” assigned to the “Jolly Rogers” of Fighter Squadron One Zero Three (VF-103), assigned to Carrier Air Wing Seventeen (CVW-17) performs a high-speed pass while conducting integrated training exercises in the Caribbean. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer's Mate 1st Class James Vidrine. (RELEASED)

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At sea aboard USS John F. Kennedy (CV 67) Apr. 18, 2002 -- An F-14 “Tomcat” assigned to the "Red Rippers" of Fighter Squadron One One (VF-11) is launched from one of four steam catapult systems on the ship’s flight deck. Kennedy and her embarked Carrier Airwing Seven (CVW-7) are conducting combat missions in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer's Mate Airman Apprentice Joshua Karsten. (RELEASED)

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Aboard USS Abraham Lincoln (Jan. 26, 2001) -- An F-14D "Tomcat" from the "Tomcatters" of Fighter Squadron Three One (VF-31) flies over the Landing Signal Officer (LSO) platform aboard USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN 72) after returning from a successful proficiency flight. The Lincoln is on her final leg of a scheduled six-month deployment to the Arabian Gulf in support of Operation Southern Watch. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer's Mate 2nd Class Daniel Wolsey. (RELEASED)

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Operation Enduring Freedom (Aug. 8, 2002) -- An F-14 "Tomcat" assigned to the "Jolly Rogers" of Fighter Squadron One Zero Three (VF-103) conducts a mission over Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. The Grumman F-14 Tomcat is a supersonic, twin-engine, variable sweep wing, two-place strike fighter. The Tomcat’s primary missions are air superiority, fleet air defense and precision strike against ground targets. U.S. Navy photo by Capt. Dana Potts. (RELEASED)

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At sea with USS George Washington (CVN 73) Oct. 14, 2002 -- An F-14 "Tomcat" from the “Jolly Rogers” of Fighter Squadron One Zero Three (VF-103) flies over the Mediterranean Sea at sunset. The George Washington, homeported in Norfolk, Va., is participating in the NATO exercise “Destined Glory 2002.” Washington and her embarked Carrier Air Wing Seventeen (CVW-17) are approaching the end of scheduled deployment in support of Operations Enduring Freedom and Southern Watch. U.S. Navy photo by Capt. Dana Potts. (RELEASED)

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Atlantic Ocean (Oct. 17, 2002) -- An F-14 “Tomcat” heads back to Key West Naval Air Station (NAS) after intense “dog fight” training over the Atlantic Ocean during exercise Cope Snapper 2002. Cope Snapper is a multi-aircraft exercise that engages dissimilar air combat training with on fighter data link and joint operations with the Navy. The members involved in Cope Snapper consist of the 159th Fighter Wing from Louisiana, the 169th AGS McEntire Air National Guard from South Carolina, and the Navy's F/A-18 “Hornet” and F-14 “Tomcat” fighter jets. U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Shane A. Cuomo. (RELEASED)

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Pula, Croatia (Oct. 28, 2002) -- An F-14B "Tomcat" assigned to the "Jolly Rogers" of Fighter Squadron One Zero Three (VF-103) flies in formation with a pair of MiG-21’s assigned to the Croat Air Force. VF-103 is part of a detachment from Carrier Air Wing Seventeen (CVW-17) embarked aboard USS George Washington (CVN 73) participating with the Croat Air Force in Joint Wings 2002. Joint Wings is a multinational exercise between the U.S. and the Croat Air Force designed to practice intelligence gathering. George Washington is homeported in Norfolk, Va., and is nearing the end of a scheduled six month deployment after completing combat missions in support of Operations Enduring Freedom and Southern Watch. U.S. Navy photo by Capt. Dana Potts. (RELEASED)

But IMO the Tomcat looks better than the F/A-18 Hornet. Don't get me wrong the Hornet it's a great fighter, but it just doesn't have that sleek design.

Originally Posted by bd popeye

The thing about a Tomcat most people do not understand.. Just today a retired US Navy Captain wrote this about the fabled Tomcat.

I believe the Tomcat/Phoenix combo could track and engage 6 targets simultaneously at over 100 miles, well beyond the range of anyone engaging the Tomcat.

Regarding why the AB turns on after launch with Rafale M and not Full AB on the deflectors before launch, I asked on a french forum with people serving in the French Navy:

- On Rafale M, the pilot has no input on the plane during the launch. Rafale launch procedure is 100% automatic through computer which automatically adjust thrust in function of weight, wind etc... The pilot only takes control of the Rafale a few seconds after it leaves the deck. (Actually, most pilots have hands off the stick and throttle on only grab them while in the air)

Off course this can be overridden (or again, if Rafale is heavy, computer automatically adjust thrust to full AB while still on catapult)

As you can seen on these videos:
Full AB Rafale while still on catapult at 5:50 and 6:00
Charles de Gaulle CVN French Carrier Operations - YouTube

And here also at 4:30
Dassault Rafale Aircraft Carrier Operations - YouTube

Originally Posted by Franklin

Can some one explain why the F-14 Tomcats where dropped for the F/A-18 Hornets that was a inferior plane compared to the Tomcats.

Because of Dick Cheney

Originally Posted by navyreco

Regarding why the AB turns on after launch with Rafale M and not Full AB on the deflectors before launch, I asked on a french forum with people serving in the French Navy:

- On Rafale M, the pilot has no input on the plane during the launch. Rafale launch procedure is 100% automatic through computer which automatically adjust thrust in function of weight, wind etc... The pilot only takes control of the Rafale a few seconds after it leaves the deck. (Actually, most pilots have hands off the stick and throttle on only grab them while in the air)

Off course this can be overridden (or again, if Rafale is heavy, computer automatically adjust thrust to full AB while still on catapult)

As you can seen on these videos:
Full AB Rafale while still on catapult at 5:50 and 6:00
Charles de Gaulle CVN French Carrier Operations - YouTube

And here also at 4:30
Dassault Rafale Aircraft Carrier Operations - YouTube



Because of Dick Cheney

Yes, Dirty Dick Cheney, and Rummey, and Gates, all enamored of the ground pounder mode, did in the Tomkat and the Raptor, not the brightest gentlemen in the Republican party, think Air Power is a rock band! Dummies

Yes, Dirty Dick Cheney, and Rummey, and Gates

I use to call Rumsfeld Rummy the Dummy...Don't like any of those guys but...

Guys trust me on this.. The Tomcat was doomed when the Hornet hit the skies. The Hornet had a much higher reliability rate and less maintenance man-hours per-flights hours than the Tomcat ever could have. The F-18 is not a better fighter just more reliable.

I betcha if any one of you was ever a Mech(Jet engine mech), tweet(Avionics) or metalsmith (Airframe and hydraulics) in any Tomcat squadron you'd be singin' a different tune..

As for the Raptor..jeez it's still broken. Who knows.. maybe just maybe the zoomies will get it fixed.

Originally Posted by bd popeye

I use to call Rumsfeld Rummy the Dummy...Don't like any of those guys but...

Guys trust me on this.. The Tomcat was doomed when the Hornet hit the skies. The Hornet had a much higher reliability rate and less maintenance man-hours per-flights hours than the Tomcat ever could have. The F-18 is not a better fighter just more reliable.

I betcha if any one of you was ever a Mech(Jet engine mech), tweet(Avionics) or metalsmith (Airframe and hydraulics) in any Tomcat squadron you'd be singin' a different tune..

As for the Raptor..jeez it's still broken. Who knows.. maybe just maybe the zoomies will get it fixed.

There maybe more "bug-lovers" if Top Gun was filmed with F/A-18 instead of F-14, but of course the public don't see it the way the professionals do...but if they love F-14 this much, they should join the Iranian camp because they still have a fleet of F-14 in service.

Iranians also got Phoenix missiles with thier F14 Tomcats, infact Iran tool delivery of around 1,000 AIM-54s before the 1979 revolution

they also had 140 F16s on order with a further opition of 160 to total 300 x F16s!!! None were delivered but they did get some ground equipment for the F16

can you believe that was in 1970s, massive order!! they also took so many Chinnoks, at the time Iran was just a mini superpower, they could get anything and everything from the Americans before Israel and before Japan

Originally Posted by asif iqbal

Iranians also got Phoenix missiles with thier F14 Tomcats, infact Iran tool delivery of around 1,000 AIM-54s before the 1979 revolution

they also had 140 F16s on order with a further opition of 160 to total 300 x F16s!!! None were delivered but they did get some ground equipment for the F16

can you believe that was in 1970s, massive order!! they also took so many Chinnoks, at the time Iran was just a mini superpower, they could get anything and everything from the Americans before Israel and before Japan

Iran was a trusted US ally in the 70s, and they had F-14s because they were trustworthy. When the Iranian Monarchy fell, Iran was the first middle eastern govt to go "banana republic", and that sad business is now in full swing in the formerly stable govts around the region. In any respect those Tomcats are a sad reminder of how that business has all turned out, there may be some that are "airworthy", but I doubt that any are "combat ready"?