How to Grab Taiwan in 7 hours

well i don't believe it is impossible but just think of the incredible costs of such a project, i don't doubt that china can afford and it's an excellent way of transporting troops to Taiwan after taking it. Problem and Merit of it is than no one is crazy enough to do it, at least according to what most people is likely to think of the idea and if Taiwan reunite with China before tunnel is complete then it could be made into a civilian project.

Still cost, time and likeliness of problems during construction is probably what stops it from being done since it is a lot easier to construct from both ends simultaneously.

However if they really take Taiwan by means of tunneling then i'll buy you a meal, consider that a promise.

one thing though..wouldnt taiwan notice the mass asembly of troops on the one end of the "Tchunnel"(taiwan/china tunel)? even so, these tunnels would allow for only modest transport of troops, and the troops would have to move from the warehouses to taiwanese bases, which requires great secrecy and coordination. however, if chinese commanders and thinktanks ever decided to work on this plan, it could certainly be developed into a plausible feat.

never bank your sucess on one secret weapon. taiwans new weapons deal seems as if it can help deter a pla invasion. the solution? get your own "hing plan". the pla should strike a massive deal with russia for 2 missle cruisers, 12 tu-22s, 10 zubr transports, 4 more kilos, and hundred of supersonic cruise missles. this deal will hinge on whether taiwan decides to pass its own wepaons deal. put short, if taiwan decides to buy more american weapons, china will buy more russian weapons. this may force even the dpp to think twice about their deal.

No offense, but why does this sound like the plot from Goldfinger?



But seriously. It has quite a few logistical problems and money could be a serious problem for them. But I like your thinking. It's a plot so ridiculous, who would think anyone would do it? Again, no offence but it is the gist of how the secrecy is kept.

Besides, crazier plots have been conjoured by militaries just as compitent as China's. And some of them even worked!

if you are digging a tunnel of that scale.. there's going to be a lot of workers.. and you can't keep everyone quiet.. someone is going to talk.. and there are plenty of spies in china working for taiwan. also the tunnel would only be able to transport infantry. since once they get to the other side can be moved easily to other locations on the island without detection. i guess when the war is over, can always use the tunnel as a civilian tunnel. but digging 100 miles is crazy... it will take forever. the english channel took 7 years and it is 31 miles long... taiwan strait is 100 miles long.. that means 21 years to build. and the english channel was being digged from both sides.. for this one.. you can only dig from china.. so double again, to 42 years.. by then, taiwan is probably unified already.

also the english channel tunnel cost about 10 billion pounds.. times that by 3 is 30 billion pounds.. or a lot of money that could be used to do a lot more stuff.

two things, pisigma. the chunnel was being built in the 80s. digging and earth processing technologyhave coem along way since then. lessens learned from the chunnel project can be applied to the strait. also, china has far more workers, all of which are motivated and persistent, more so than their english and fench counterparts. its true for all factories, so why not with this?
the workers also can work for less pay, and less comforts. equipment is cheaper in china, so the cost will not be tripled. besides, this chunnel is not going to handle trains, just soem jeeps and troops, at most some ifv's.

spies? im guessing workers would be drafted form the country side, and guards would certainly moniter the work. much like the manhatten project.

manhatten employed top scientists, these people are not the kind that's easily bribed. when you get workers, hundreds of thousands of them, it's easy to sneak a few spies into the workers (pretend to be workers) give them some money, and they'll spill everything. and it's kinda easy to notice when you got a few thousand workers going in and out. the machines used for the tunnel digging will be specialized, it's not just two arms and a hammer anymore. chances are the technology and machinery need to be imported, and special workers employed to maintain them.

trains will move troops faster and more effectively.. they'll also need to think of future plans after the attack. to convert the tunnel for civilan use.

PiSigma is right, keeping it all secret would be extremely hard. Especially if you need to import machinery.

Besides China don't have time to wait 25-40 years if they really intend on invading Taiwan

Sure you could speed it up by just placing a long row of concrete blocks on the bottom instead of building under it but it still would take forever and keeping it quiet would be close to impossible.

Still my attitude to it is like before: Good luck with making the plan a complete success.

Originally Posted by PiSigma

manhatten employed top scientists, these people are not the kind that's easily bribed. when you get workers, hundreds of thousands of them, it's easy to sneak a few spies into the workers (pretend to be workers) give them some money, and they'll spill everything. and it's kinda easy to notice when you got a few thousand workers going in and out. the machines used for the tunnel digging will be specialized, it's not just two arms and a hammer anymore. chances are the technology and machinery need to be imported, and special workers employed to maintain them.

trains will move troops faster and more effectively.. they'll also need to think of future plans after the attack. to convert the tunnel for civilan use.

yet, somehow those top scientists got nuclear information to russia.
good point though. this seems like a fairly ambitious project, and has many places where something an go wrong. but it was a very novel idea, and thats what the forum needs.

Originally Posted by Fairthought

Taiwan is actually tectonically stable- much moreso than Japan. The biggest earthquake experienced there in recent years was off shore to their east and was only a 6.9. Japan by contrast has regularly experienced 7.0 earthquakes and larger, and this has not harmed Japan's huge underground/underwater tunnels. Japan has a very big one connecting the islands of honshu to hokaido (we're talking 1970's technology here) which is very similar to the one I'm proposing. Even in an earthquake zone, it is possible to re-inforce tunnels from cave-ins thus safe-guarding them provided your are not directly at the epicenter.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Taiwan is actually NOT tectonically stable. The biggest earthquake Taiwan experienced recently was 921, measuring 7.3 on the richter scale. What's more the epicenter was in Central Taiwan. The quake caused roughly 2000 deaths, 8500 injured. I walked around the streets of Taichung speechless, just looking at the destructionn, and I hadn't even seen the bodies yet. And Taichung's damage wasn't even close to Nantou or other areas.

Taiwan regularily has small earthquakes that are noticeable (i.e. buildings rocking gently) and generally most of the epicenters are in the center of Taiwan.

I can't believe that so many of you guys posted on this thread without the slightest information regarding Taiwan's geography? This isn't an insult but if you want to discuss a hypothetical scenario I believe it is best to understand as much as possible about the area in which it would take place. Granted I don't think anyone else other than myself in this thread have lived in Taiwan before, but to put it bluntly, it's all geography. Taiwan is NOT stable, and that fact alone might negate this entire strategy.

No it wouldn't, because Japan's on tunnel projects as mentioned originally weren't effected overly much by its own earthquakes.

the soil in the english channel is far from stable. it tends to slide the instant u try to move it. not to mention the weather over the english channel can get much nastier than taiwan strait. taiwan is relatively stable compared with japan, and a small quake in the stright does not mean the entire area will be affected.

heres the jist: taiwan lies on the meeting point of the coastal plate and phillipine sea plate.most of the movement is actually on land, and the taiwanese island would most likely be affected the most by a minor quake. the strait would remain relatively calm

zergling, where u live doesnt affect how techtonically active taiwan is. ive lived in areas much opposite to taiwan, and there were never any disturbances. the primary plate movement is under taiwan itself, not the seas around it.

It appears I may have misread the meaning of the original post, and if so, I apologize for any hard feelings anyone felt from my post.

I interpreted the number 1 point as saying, "Taiwan doesn't have common earthquake activity" when that is not true.

I simply pointed out the 921 earthquake to correct the "facts" about Taiwan's most recent earthquake, which was a 7.3.

If the point was mostly regarding the area in the Taiwan strait and not Taiwan itself, then Migleader is correct (I think) that it wouldn't affect the feasability of the tunnel. However, I don't understand when you noted that you lived in "areas much opposite to taiwan" and you didn't feel any disturbances. Of course you wouldn't feel any major disturbance from an earthquake in Taiwan, because the plate movement is under Taiwan itself as you correctly noted... so how does this come off as me saying Taiwan's earthquake movement is related to my location?

Sorry Zergling and Mig Leader, its a good imaginative idea and I would never want to criticise anyone for exercising their reasoning and imagination, but I have to side on PiSigma on this one.

I was involved in the Drilling Industry during the Eighties and so kept a close watch on the Chunnel (Channel Tunnel) project. The biggest difficulty after those quoted by PiSigma, is that; even allowing for Technological development of TBM (probably not all that great - I cannot think of too many mega projects capable of funding this development in last 15 years), Rock Strata remains Strata, just as it has always done.

YOu cannot confuse a tunnel entrance with a mine - they are very and obviously different. A large Tunnel on the Fujianese coast would be very visable and very obvious. Determining its function would take seconds!!!!

The alternative would be to place it deep inland (perhapse disguised as a Water diversion scheme) but then you have to bore all that extra distance before you leave your own territory - a massive time and monetary cost!!!!

Finally, nobody has considered ventilation, A massive tunnel needs substantial ventilation. With Chunnel, these are large structures that break the water surface and are marked navigational hazards in the English Channel. You would need similar structures (many of them) along the Tiawanese Straits and I suspect, that they might be a bit of a dead giveaway (OK OK you could try and disguise them of Oil & Gas Test drilling Rigs, but a) Rights will probably be contested and draw unwanted attention by itself, b) If their is no known Oil & Gas reserves in the Straits - espically if the Rock Strata configurations are wrong, then this will raise eyebrows, c) That they are all in a Straight Line heading from Fujian to Formosa will definatly riase both eyebrows simultaneously.

A good effort non-the-less, keep the brain moving and the ideas coming, sooner or later you might just hit on the very thing........

Um... I am actually on the side that argues that such a tunnel would be nearly the definition of impossible... I like cool ideas, but this is just kinda... far out.

What I was should have said more clearly was in that particular aspect I didn't have a problem with the tunnel plan, though it would meet countless others that would be extremely hard to ratify given our current technology, especially without Taiwan finding out.

That said, your post was very informative, and I think you kind of KO'ed it with the ventilation observation...