SinoDefence Forum

Mr T

How about "if you don't want us to sell any more weapons to Taiwan, you have to......"?

Some believed that the US wouldn't dare sell more weapons to Taiwan so there was no need to offer concessions to Obama. After China has stopped sulking it might decide to stop stalling on things like sanctions for Iran.

Besides, it's not like the US only needs Chinese help these days. Maybe it has been too worried about sucking up to countries that have been less than cooperative in the past whilst spurning its allies. If NATO countries, South Korea, Japan and the rest all demanded their pound of flesh like China does for its cooperation America would be a skeleton.

AssassinsMace

Meeting the Dalai Lama or selling Taiwan arms is not as important because both those things have already happened before. So they aren't really any kind of leverage on China. Unless Israel strikes Iran on its own, the most likely thing to happen is nothing. I'm sure China doesn't want to rock the boat when it comes to relations with the US but it's not going to come at China's expense, i.e. the oil they want from Iran. So if the US escalates, China will too. We've already seen China weather this Western economic crisis better than expected which is also another reason why the West is angry at China for not being as dependent on them as thought and predicted. China can probably take a little more of what the West can throw. The question is how much is the West willing to sacrifice just so China feels it. China doesn't have to buy more US bonds. Doesn't have to... doesn't need to and it'll probably serve China better if further money was redirected inside China. It's not like the US governemnt has stopped spending more than it has.

solarz

Or China could use this as an opportunity to boost its own aviation technology.

vesicles

What can/would/should the US do if it's in the same situation? Back in 2001, China had EP3 and all its crew. What did the US do except "oppose" and "protest"?

Mr T

In which case Boeing has nothing to lose as it's likely China would have done that anyway. Plus China frequently demands technology transfer when foreign firms sell it high-tech goods - Boeing might avoid shooting itself in the foot by helping develop a future competitor.

Rather different given that the US wanted its personnel back as quickly as possible. It's not like the US is currently holding Chinese personnel in detention.

twodollarss

The event in 2001 doesn't not affect national security. It is just a matter of time China will release the hostages. Selling arms to Taiwan will affect China's national security.

What if U.S decided to sell an advanced ship (Burke class) to Taiwan, is China going to use this same weak sauce move again (slapping sanctions and military suspension)? Of course, this still won't lead to war but most likely China will just stand there and slap more sanctions.

Lion

I thought the mighty American will sell advance F-16 to Taiwan since you think US think China reaction to sales is insignificant. In fact Taiwan deem F-16 deal is the most important hardware to get

Why did it drop out from the overall sales? Plus its a good opportunity to boast economic and keep F16 line open and employ more US staff?

Looks like your so called paper tiger does weld some power on US overall.

twodollarss

China is still a weak country. I wouldn't give them full credit for their work until 50-75 years later. Until then, you will see this world as a multi-polarized world rather than China as a sole superpower. Most of their military systems are copied and pasted. The only thing isn't copy and paste is probably China's recent NMD testing. lol I know these hopeful pro-China posters want to see a Superpower China but it going to occur anytime soon.. Keep waiting.

A country with all those scientists unable to develop a stealth plane as good as F-22. It will be lucky if they develop one that is half as good. hahaha what a joke. What are those scientists doing or thinking in their research labs..

U.S scientists are more productive than Chinese counterpart. It is fact..

SampanViking

For those interested, it appears (from reading some of the banking blogs) that the Banks think they could be top of the target list.

If so then banks that provide general services to the Military Contractors and especially those that help facilitate the deal, are worrying that they will find their ability to carry out business in the PRC curtailed. This to include Wire Services as well as operating Licences of all descriptions.

Seen in this light, this suggests a convergence between Arms to Taiwan and Dump the Dollar that Washington must find highly disconcerting.

It will be interesting to see how Banking Stocks start to react next week.

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vesicles

Please explain to me how Taiwan having a few missiles and a couple of subs that will never be built will affect China's national security. It's not like Taiwan can ever challenge China or attack China. EP3, however, is a completely different story. It was not only a huge embarrassment for the US govn't, but also a risk of exposing sensitive intellegence to a potential competitor. For one thing, the hardware on the plane could help China develop its own EP3s. Also, interrogation of its crew might yeild info like what kind of intel the US is seeking from China and how they are getting it. This would help China develop methods to avoid future loss of intel. So the EP3 incident is actually more critical to the US than Taiwan getting a couple of old weapons.

Lion

I hope 10 years later u still be around. In fact, we did not wait so long.

China start modernisation only in the last 20 years. Consider the stage they reach today, its a feat! JXX is going to debut soon. I hope u will be around in this forum thru out the year to witness JXX debut.

No, US scientist are more lazy/less creative than Chinese counterpart, its fact

Mr T

All the important systems on a plane like the EP-3 have devices that allow them to be easily destroyed in case of a crash landing, capture by a non-allied force, etc. In a situation like the one in 2001 it was standard procedure to do that, and it was subsequently confirmed that procedure was followed. There wouldn't have been much (if anything) left worth for the PLA to pick over.

It was never included in the sales in the first place. The items released recently were technically first approved for sale to Taiwan by the Bush administration. The current administration officially is considering how much Taiwan needs new F-16s as opposed to upgrades of the current F-16 fleet - which Taiwan has been briefed on, so the implication is that at the very least will go ahead.

A report for Congress in regards to Taiwan's air defence needs is supposedly in the works, due to be released in the next few months. If that suggests Taiwan does need new F-16s we may well see such a sale made subsequently and that's also what some defence experts have suggested recently.

Or China may bully Obama into not selling them. Who knows what will happen?

twodollarss

China certainly has more scientist than U.S. I still don't see them producing a new brand ingenios system yet. Seeing is believing. Most of the systems that China has right now is copy and paste.

J-10=Israel Levi
J-11=Su27
you can fill the rest for other systems.

twodollarss

Ok.. Let's make this clear. Every posts I make will have an unpopular tone in this thread. Pro-China posters don't like to hear weak/negative/bad news about China.. They twist and turn a piece of article or news into a positive light.

Huge embarrassment? U.S did not have that kind of reaction during that incident. sensitive intelligence was destroyed in case you don't know.

China develop its own EP3s.. The plane was shipped back to U.S in just a few months after the incident. Copy and paste takes a much longer time than just a few months.

vesicles

Boy oh boy. It show how much you know about J-10... I can almost see the faces of those more informed members of this forum...

About your comments on "the pro-China posters". Yes, many posters here have some connections with China one way or another. That doesn't mean it's all good and we are pro-China. Many of us and our family and friends, especially those who had to live through the 60s and 70s, have bad experience with the CCP. When I say bad experience, I don't mean being frustrated with the beurocracy. I mean some real nasty things. When talking about China, we try to be as neutral as possible. If you spend some time and read our posts, you will see that. Some of us may be more informed than others and have more insightful opinion than others, but that does not mean those opinions are subjective.

Another thing, wishing all the best for a nation's attempt to develop and get better is only human nature. A developed nation means good living conditions and better life for its people. What's wrong with that? It's like your neighbor is making a life-changing decision, you want to wish them all the best. What kind of person would wish them bad luck and that they would never succeed?