SinoDefence Forum

Gollevainen

Part I
Early days

Introduction

Although Soviet Union had the second largest naval forces during the cold war, almost exceeding USN in some aspects, it always lacked behind the biggest western navies in one important field: Aircraft operations in offshore seas e.g. lacked potent Aircraft carriers until the very end. Admiral Kuznetsov (project 1143.5) was nearly entering service prior the soviet collapse.
This essay is meant to give bit more deeper insight to Soviet carrier development, its achievements and most importantly to trying to give answer to why these major aspects of modern naval warfare never gained the appreciation it certainly should have deserved in Soviet Union. In this essay, the main focus will be in the post-WWII era before the first aviation capable ship Moskva class (project 1123) and again in the late seventies and early eighties when the conventional operated aircraft carrier decisions where made.
As this essay will be introduced in the Chinese military forum, the later part of it is dedicated to compare Chinese aircraft carrier program to the Soviet one and trying to find out what is the best direction where China should go.

The idea of sort of “re-opening� this topic is that the author has received major update on the matter, mainly due gaining access to numbers of Russian military magazines called “Morskaja Kollektija�. Also by almost a gift from various gods and goddesses, good collection of previously unknown (at least to the author) pictures and drawings of several soviet carrier designs fallen to authors hands. This led to more comprehensive understandment of previous material already existing in the author’s collection.

This essay will be in its most honest meaning, an effort to share this new knowledge to rest of the forum community. All fact-errors are mostly due the limits of authors Russian skills (none existing) and therefore the need to rely on available mechanical translation services, mostly Babel fish- internet translator provided by AltaVista. Any corrections or additional information is indeed greatly appreciated.

Note: This essay will be posted in three parts due the limitations of picture posting in our forum. Part I covers early days, pre- and post WWII era, Part II consecrates on project 1123 and 1143 and Finally part III focuses on the conventional carrier plans since 1960’s and onwards up to the Admiral kuznetsov Also it remains still unclear whether the part of Chinese and soviet carrier development comparison will be in the third part or form a part IV on it’s own.





It is common believe and missknowlidge that soviets weren’t interested of carriers until the building of Admiral kuznetsov. That somehow they were stucked to primitive and aging thinking in naval matters. It certainly wasn’t the case. It is somewhat ironical that the most sticking single factor of Soviet Union never had true fixed wing aviation onboard before its collapse isn’t too ageing thinking, but on the contrary too modern and unrealistic plans made by the government that followed Stalin after his death.
It was Stalin’s era when the most ambitious naval constructive plans were made, most notably the 1938-42 Five year plan which called for two carriers to be built for northern and pacific fleets, one for each. Although this was the first time when carrier plans were made this far, it was as early as 1925-26 when aircraft carriers were first toughed. After the Revolution Soviets gained most of the Tsarist Russian fleet, but many of the ships still building phase never entered soviet naval service. During those chaos-days, many ships were captured by Germans and Entente states. Some unfinished hulls were simply sold for scrapping.
This was the case whit Borodino class battle cruisers. These 30,000 ton, 228 meter length ships armed whit 12 356mm guns were being build in Baltic SY at Leningrad. Of the four ships, only Izmail was not sold to Germany for breaking up and there where serious thoughts of it being converted to aircraft carrier. These plans never got any further and the ship was broken up at Leningrad in 1931. Similar plans where also made about the fourth Gangut class battleship Frunze which unlike her three sisters never received moderninsation and was thus used as a floating barracks at Neva.
From objective point of view, these plans were unrealistic for the Soviet Union’s capabilities at the time, but serve as an example that carriers weren’t totally alien to soviet naval thinking. Things got much more serious as the whole soviet naval constructive plans evolved. Coming to the 30’s Soviet naval building was rapidly increasing. First monumental steps were the introducing Kirov (project 26) class cruisers in 1937 followed by the near sister class Maxim Gorky (project 26bis). The above mentioned 1938-42 five year plan called new battleships and battle cruisers to be build. Also 17 Chapaev (Project 68K) class light cruisers was to be build, but only five where eventually completed, and thus the sole survivors of the pre-war “large sea and oceanic fleet� plans. The two mentioned carriers served similar fate as the battleships; WWII just came at the wrong time.
Under this five year plan, two 13,000 ton carriers were to be build. Some preliminary sketches and studies were made as early as in 1936 by the TsKB-45, the main design bureau for large surface combatants at that time.
The TTZ was issued in 1938. The ships now under project 71 would have been displacement 10600 tons light, 11300 tons standard and 13150 tons full load. Length would have been 195 meters in waterline. Armament would have consisted 3 twin 130 mm B-24 guns, 8 single 100mm B-34 guns and four quadrupled 37mm 46-K AA guns. Aviation assets required 30 torpedo bombers and 15 fighters. Planes would have been stored in 148m x 18m x 6m hangar served by two lifts. Two pneumatic catapults with a length of 24 m each, which had to give the takeoff speed of 110 km/h to aircraft mass to 4 t was also planned. These ships were supposedly to be based on the Chapaev hulls and featured similar machinery. Funnels were to be faced downwards as in Japanese carrier Akagi. These ships were to be launched 1941 and 1942. When the war broke out nothing dramatical had been done to this project. TTZ was touched several times and event of the war was affecting the design by e.g. adding additional AA armament to the ships. Also one interesting notice must be said at this point. When Indonesia bought a Sverdlov (project 68bis, an post-war follower for the Chapaev class) in 1962, there were also talks about aircraft carrier being made from Sverdlov- class hulls. Nothing came out of this but it raises questions whether it would have resampled the project 71.



linedrawing of the project 71


As the ship was based on the cruiser hull of project 68, it was very likely that soviets would have been able to launch the ship. They didn’t do it and in 1942 the carrier planning raised again and it was soon discovered that the project 71 was obsolete in many aspects. Some sort of redesign was made in the form of project 716, but little is know of this design. It was to have machinery and mechanical parts from the same time planned Project 69 Battle cruisers (Kronstad class). Displacement would have been 24050 tons standard and 30600 t Full loads. Length was to be 230 meters in water line. This design was given low priority and nothing of it was heard after the end of WWII.
New TTZ was launched in January 1943 and was led by doctor of naval sciences professor Vice Admiral L. g. Goncharov. Much more intense studies were made and results from those came the project 72. Overall dimensions the ship would have resembled British Illustrious class as the Project 72 would have been 224 meters length (tough some sources state 250 meters) and 28800 tons full load displacement. Armament was first toughted to be 8 dual 130 mm, but was later changed to 8 dual 85mm. Also 12 dual 37mm and 8 dual 23 mm AA guns where planned. These designs used data acquired form Germany just prior the war. Total of 60 aircraft were toughed stored in 130m x 20.5m hangar. Soviet delegations visited then still building carrier Craft Zeppelin and also other carrier experience around world was studied.


Project 72 from the overview can be seen the similarity to Illustrious class

In 1945 a commission was formed to submit results of the redesign of all warship project based on the wartime experience. This also includes the carrier program. It remains bit uncertain whether the project 72 survived this or not. The commission suggested that specialist be send to aboard allied carriers to gain more experience. They even suggested that soviets should try to buy or lent an Essex class carrier from USA. Obviously these were quite unrealistic plans and nothing came up from them. Ultimately the commission proposed light, escort, fleet and heavy carriers; the difference between light and escort carriers would have been in terms of speed and armour.
In all thirty-three variants were developed, twenty-four for escort, three for light, four for fleet and two for heavy carriers. For example all escort carriers would have accommodated 24 fighters and 18 ASW aircrafts.
Probably one of those proposed projects where project 69AV, aircraft carrier based on the cancelled project 69 class battlecruiser (Kronstad) It may have been follow on design of the project 716 mentioned above. Standard displacement would have been 32000 t and 38680 tons for full load. Length was 240 meters and width 29.5 meters. 160m x 26m hangar served by three lift accommodated total of 76 aircrafts. This design was probably been one of the light carrier designs.


Poject 69AV

There was also, probably one of the fleet carrier designs, called Kostromitinova. It measured 280 meters length in waterline with 40800 tons empty, 45300 standard and 51200 tons full load. 178m x 16m hangar supporting 66 fighters and 40 torpedo bombers. Armament was to be 8 dual 152mm, 4 triple (?) 100mm, 8 quad 37mm and 22 dual 23mm. Finally, the heavy carrier, which would have been 82370 tons displacement and 350 meters in length. Stalin approved Admiral Kuznetsovs suggestion that least two carriers should have been included for the Post-war fleet building-ups. Eventually Stalin came to different minds and no carriers were included in the 1946-55 shipbuilding programme.


Project Kosrtomitinova

The main defender of carriers in soviet leadership was Admiral N G Kuznetsov. Whereas Stalin had nearly obsessed need for Battleships and Batllecruisers being included in the soviet navy, Kuznetsov where much more aware of the rapid development in naval strategy. Kuzenetsov was a strong mined individual and was one of the few who actually dared to go against Stalin. He did share his bite on the Stalins sanctions and was priefly assigned to Pacific fleets commander. He returned to his orginal post of head of the soviet fleet in 1951.
Soviet carrier plans did not resume until Stalin’s death in 1953. Two pre-project designs where made in 1954. One by TsKB-17 and other by the navy’s internal design studies organisation TSNII-45. Each of these designs carried 40 aircrafts. TsKB-17 version would have displaced 30,555t, with speed of 34 knots. It was provably called project 85 which bears strong similarity to US Essex class (after SCB-27C) and French Foch class. TsNII-45 suggested 21,000t with speed of 32, 5 knots. These plans came their end in 1955 when Soviets new premier Khrushcev who fired Kuznetsov, officially because the disastrous sinking of the battleship Novorossiysk but more likely because Kuznetsov was strong supporter of large surface oriented fleet. Khrushcev had other plans. “Revolution in military affairs� descriped more specifically in the Part II, seized all soviet large surface ship development for a while including the ongoing carrier program. It remains unclear if these carrier plans would have survived if some other of the runners for Stalin’s throne would have exceeded better than Khruschev. That is for certain that the RMA thinking did more harm to soviet carrier plans than any other single factor. Although first soviet aircraft-carrying ships were approved by Krhuschev, they were in fact quite different than traditional carriers with completely different roles. All later soviet aviation ships were in event followers of this first major decision which is often judged to be crucial mistake.


Project 85, note the similarity with French Clemencea and Foch.

Part II will soon follow...

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bd popeye

Well done Golleavinen! Bravo.

Where did you get those drawings? I have studied CV's for a long time and never come accross those drawings.

It appears the USSR CV program was stymied by indesive leadership. Men who wanted what they wanted not looking at the entire situation. If the USSR had followed through on it's plans to build CV's how different would todays navies worldwide be?

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Sczepan

agree - I didn't know about these projects before you reportet that. I only had some information, that USSR studied the former german "Graf Zeppelin", which was never completed, and was captured at the end of WW II
I thought, this hull was the first start of developing russian carrier-projects, it would be intersting to know, (if that happened) which parts was used to develop indegenious russian carriers

german source
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Qu...graf_zep1.html
http://www.messerschmitt-bf109.de/ph...f-zeppelin.php

english source
http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmari.../grafzeppelin/
http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/28...fzeppelin.html

Attached Images

	graf-zeppelin02.jpg (24.5 KB, 25 views)
	graf_zep1.jpg (23.0 KB, 26 views)
	zeppelin.jpg (41.0 KB, 30 views)

Gollevainen

Well most of the pics i found from this spanish military forum, i will post the link and the other sources as well along the third part. The basic idea of this thread was to put all the info in on packet and post it in here. I will try to post the part II and III during this weekend or next week.

But about the Zeppelin i almoust forgotten it. It remained in the Soviet occupation zone and was eventually towed to Leningrad in 1949 loaded full whith other warbooty. There are two version of it's fate. Someone says that it hit a mine in the baltic and sunked. Other version is that it was used as target for naval aviation and sunked after several hits from torpedoes and bombs. At the moment i cannot say wich version is thru, i'll try to dig something out. Also if anyone else have more spesific info on the Zeppelin please share it whith rest of us...

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Jeff Head

An outstanding essay. Lots of GREAT historical data here, most of which is unknown outside of Russia itself. Job well done...good research Look very forward to Parts !II and III!

In the end, the Soviets did produce very credible ships in the form of the Kuznetsov and the Varyag and had even larger plans when they imploded. Perhaps not nearly as strong in pure power projection as US super carriers, but nonetheless very capable and formidable ships in their own right.

Gollevainen

Part II


Crawl, Walk, Run: Poject 1123 and 1143.



After Stalin’s deaht, Three mens fought for the “throne� Bulganov, Malenkov and Nikita Khrushcev. The later was the strongest and bcoming of 1956 he was de facto the new Premier of Soviet Union.
Many of us know the “secret speech� where Khrushchev Revealed Stalins crimes and thus taking a distance to his predeccor. Khrushchev did lots of other signifigant things wich eventually led to his demise in 1964. One of those was the “revolution in military affairs�, a doctrine that shaped the cold war soviet armed forces consederebly. The effects of it on soviet fleet were enourmos.
Althoug soviet nuclear capapility was gained during the late 40’s, Stalin clearly statet that it wasen’t to be effecting on any other military building at that time. After Stalin’s deaht, the new leadership annouced that they were uninteressed in any weapon save “nuclear missiles�. For navys point of view this ment that the new fleet would formed based on submarines and landbased aircrafts. Khrushchev tought the naval shipyards a “metaleaters� and despied the Stalins big (and tradditional) naval constructive plans. All the work on big surface combatants were halted and many projects were cancelled including the pr. 82R missile conversion from the battlecruiser design, Project 68bis class cruisers and project 56 class destroyers. All carrierplans were also dropped, althoug it was statet by Khrushchev that carriers would be neccereity to future fleet. But he also made clear that their perecence was far in future and no effort of design those were to be made at the time.
Navy representative’s tryed to cool down Khrushchev’s radical wiews and October 1955 a meet up between Khrushchev and soviet naval staff was held to make a blueprint of the future fleet. New desings emerged, like the project 61 (Kashin) escort ships (or destroyers, as they were the last EMs before the project 956) and project 156 (Petya) SKRs which wre the first soviet ships specially designed for ASW task. Also many existing desings were converded to missilecarrying ships like the project 56 class destroyers and project 183 class (Komar) FACs. Submarine force went thru even more radical changes but as this is an essey of aircraft carriers, we leave those plans to another thread. Little can always be said, like the fact that Khrushchev wanted only nuclearpowered submarines to be built, but lukily the naval staff convinced him that it would be unaffortable plan. Also all short-range subs were considered obsolet and thus the Romeo class production was stopped and all the tools were sold to China.
In the event of US Polaris and Regulus fitted submarines, soviets became even more concerned of the growing US naval superioty. To direct counter-effort, plans of small ASW helicopter carriers were made. Orginal plans called eight helicopters of which two would have to be continously airbrone. The TsKB-17 came up whit two possiple version, one with modified Sverldov class hull (The project 68 once again offers its hull to soviet carrier programe) and small carrier. Intially both versions were aproved but only the small carrier was pursuited further.
TsKB-17 came to conclusion that as the helicopters wouldn't be able to operate in bad weahter, comprehensive ASW suite and armament were to be fitted on the ships. This revisited design was aproved in 25th January 1960. As so usual to naval staffs around the world, the design must be kept as small as possiple. This ment that the displacement was to be 7000-8000 tons standart. The desing burey made several proposals varying from catamaran hull to Aluminium/mangnesium hulls. It was noticed that only using then radical gas turbines, the desing would fit the displacement limits whenusing a normal steel hull. A 8500 ton version with project 58s pressure fired steam turbines was approved in december 1960 but it was soon realised that the design was noway near ready for building.


One of the earlyer concepts of Moskva class

Several proplems were encountered exspecially wiyh the mannig issues and the helicopter operations. Firts a 300-350 size crew were investigated and the habilitation facilityes were lowered from cruiser standart to destroyer standart. The naval staff reviewed the manning issue several times and finally a 541 men crew was pursued. Another problem was the aviation assets. Soviet Air force denied all technical support to the developing team and therefore OKB Kamov had to do all the research and designing for the helicopters on board. Also the air force announced that the Ka-25 chosen to be the main helicopter type wasn’t adequate for the intended task.
The helicopter-type issue was solved (no additional data of that arm struggle between the Navy and Air Force has been revealed) but the ships aviation facilities caused more problems. It was decided to increase the amount of helicopters onboard to 14 and this required total redesign of the project. The hangar had to be increased by 81 per cent and second hangar had to be fitted between the funnels. In 1962 the increased range of the Polaris system meant few additional changes but the first ship Moskva was laid down finally on 15th December 1962. The building period was considerably long and the ship wasn’t commissioned until 25th December 1967. Second ship Leningrad was laid down in 15th January 1965 and commissioned in 2nd June 1969. Both ships served their whole life in Black Sea fleet and were frequently assigned to the Mediterranean squadron. Moskva was decommissioned in 1996 and Leningrad in 1991.
The project 1123 was all but successful design. It was plagued by many mechanical problems and design errors. Most famous of these shortcomings are the machinery problems that caused trouble in all soviet carriers as they all shared the same pressure fired steam turbines. Moskva suffered serious fire in 1973 and had to be rebuilt twice. Leningrad also reportedly went thru minor fire during her service time. The hull design caused even more trouble. The hull was unusual Y-shape which soviets first time tried with Type 7U destroyer prototype in the 30’s. It made the ships pitching in heavy seas. Also the ships trimmed by the bow, implicating that the weight balance was wrongly designed (too much weight in the bow due the complex weapon systems.) The ships were claimed to make 33 knots and to search in 26 knots. In practice they could barely made 30 knots and it was dangerous to sustain that speed for any longer period. The highest search speed was 24 knots and this could be achieved only for periods of 2-3 hours.
The ships were fitted extensive amount of experimental and prototype weapons system. This also complicated the ships service life. The Shtorm (SA-N-3 Goblet) SAM system, RPK-1 (SUW-N-1) ASW missile system and the AK-725 57mm DP were all new developments fitted first time in these ship. The ships also introduced the first soviet VDS (Mare Tail). The design originally called dual SS-N-3 SSM launchers fitted alongside the superstructure, but were never fitted with these missiles.


Moskva

In event of these several shortcomings, soviets begun to develop a revisited design. Some sources say that special Anti-ship variant, but more accurate ones claim that the third ship, (1123.3) already named Kiev was to be more radical improved with bigger airgroup, better crew facilitates, improved seakeeping qualities and more extensive weaponry. In event this third ship evolved to the project 1143 class carriers.
The carrier door had been opened and soviets were now fielding aircrafts, tough in this time only helicopters in numbers over the seas. Quite dramatical turn was the first flight of OKB Yakolev’s Yak-36 V/STOL aircraft in 1966. It provided an intermediate solution to get fixed wing aircrafts to the sea far faster than conventional planes as they were in theory capable for operating from onboard the existing and soon-to-be commissioned project 1123 class. This V/STOL hype, that was affecting in other countries as well, most notably in Great Brittan, marked the whole soviet carrier program for that day to the end. The overall capabilities of V/STOL aircrafts were greatly colored to certain soviet leaders and believe in those was based on exaggerated performance and operational usefulness. Ironically the V/STOL planes which gave the soviets the first opportunity to get fixed wing aviation in to the seas was also the main reason why the true conventional powered aviation assets never got the change in VMF. (Voennyy morskoye flota; the soviet navy)
Some sources (older ones) state that The Project 1143 was designed to use only choppers in the first place and the addition of V/STOL planes was added later on. This wasn’t the case. It now appears that the Project 1123.3, third Moskva already then named Kiev, was designed from the outset to be able to use the new Yakolevs jump jet. The official development started in 1967 and main task was to correct the several mistakes made during the building of the earlier variants. The ships capability was increased. Armament called better Anti-ship weaponry and the P-120 Malakhit (SS-N-9 Siren)missiles were first investigated. This meant bigger hull due the previous ships stability problems. The larger overall size also applied to the second demand, bigger aircrew, now made up from Ka-25 helicopters and Yak-36M V/STOL fighters. Total of 22 planes was first toughed. The crew facilities were doubled to order to have more endurance.
The design team came up with nine different plans, six of them in the lines whit the TTZ and three were innovative designs. These varied from only minor modifications to the earlier ships to nuclear powered carrier with 50 plane aircrew. Few versions were basically enlargened Moskavs with superstructure moved to the side and the flight deck extended forming sort of angled flight deck. Some of those had option for catapult and arrestor wires for MiG-23! Of all these, the variant with lengthened flight deck and side mounted superstructure was selected. Rest were considered too complicated and weren’t possible to fit them to the strict building timeline. 16th October 1968 the official redesigned TTZ of now renamed project 1143 was wielded. Some modifications was made, like the changing the short-range SSM armament to long range P-500 Bazalt (SS-N-12 Sandbox) system. Anti-aircraft armament was increased by replacing the 57mm DP with new six barrel gantlin-type AK-630 CIWS and adding two dual AK-276 76 mm DPs. These guns gained some opposition as it was tough that they were insufficient in anti-surface role for these ships. All other larger type of guns were still on the developing board but option for rearmament remained. New point defense missile system OSA-M (SA-N-4 Gecko) was also being fitted.


one of the desings made up along with the earlyer TTZ

The original Yak-36 technology demonstration aircraft evolved to Yak-36M which was later renamed Yak-38. This aircraft was far bigger than the earlier aircraft; somewhat similar size as MiG-23 (this led to several proposals of kievs to be modernized to full conventional aircraft carriers) but not even close to the latter’s combat capabilities. The aircraft was tested onboard Moskva in November 1972. The aircraft was almost complete catastrophe as its accident-rate was unacceptable and this added to that fact that the plane combat capability was almost non-existing. The fact that the type remained in service for such a long period (from 1976 to 1991) was purely political. Getting aircrafts over the seas in the first place was far more important that actually having any useful aircraft.
The ships had 130m x 22.5 meter hangar which was in effect a Moskvas hangar lenghtened to the side of the superstructure. Total of 34 aircrafts were carried, 12 Yak-38 V/STOL planes and 22 helicopters; 19 Ka-25 Hormone-As ASW copters (later supstituded by Ka-27PL Helix) and 3 Ka-25 Hormone-B missile-ranging helicopters.
First ship, Kiev was laid down 27th July 1970, launched 26th December 1972 and commisioned 28th December 1975. Seccond unit, Minsk was laid down 28th 1972, launched 30th September 1975 and commisioned 27th September 1978. Minsk varied slightly form Kiev, mainly fielding new sonar suite (Horse Jaw and Horse Tail) and electronic warfare systems. Also it is reported that Minsk aviation facilityes were improved by changing the hangar placement of the aircrafts. Third ship, Novorossiysk was laid dow 30th September 1975, launched 26th December 1978 and commisioned 14th August 1982. It differenced from the others by having the new Klinok (SA-N-9 Gauntlet) VLS point defence SAM in place of the Osa-M. (The fourth unit, Baku is described in the part III). Kiev was assigned to Northern fleet and Minsk and Novorossiysk where assigned to Pacific Fleet. All three ships were stricken in 30th June 1993 and sold for breakers. (Kiev and Minsk ended up being amusement parks in China.)



Novorossiysk

It’s often critizied and wondered the exact role of these ships. The offical term TAKR (Taktycheskiy Avionosnyy Kreyser) Tactical Aviation cruiser was chosen for politacal reasons. The term “aircraft carrier� was considered monument of “imperialistic weapon of aggression� by soviet politicans and therefor the new soviet air capaple ships would be too selfironical to be described as such. Also the old treatyes concerning ships passing thru the Darandaelles in the Turkish straight prevented Aircraft carriers passing thru black sea. Hence the official desingnation. Those who critiziais these ships often forgots that they were in effect just follow-ons to Moskva class and thus just oversized ASW carriers with capapilitye to carry V/STOL planes. Althoug the ships were similar size to US Essex class, never should they be descibed as tru aircraft carriers as they never meant to be ones. At best they were a possipility and opportunity, a dream little closer to excecuting.

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isthvan

Golly do you have some information about Uljanovsk carrier? As far as I remember it was supposed to be built after Varjag and was meant to be first real soviet carrier whit catapults and nuclear propulsion…

Gollevainen

I do, but i'm planning to post it in the ever-so-late part III were i will cover all soviet conventional carriers from project 1160 to Ulyanovsk...when i get to it... I try to get hold of myself and do it as soon as possiple.

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isthvan

Thanks! I would be weary grateful… I have found few information but some are pretty much contradictory (number of aircrafts, would he have SSM or not, dimensions, propulsion…).

Gollevainen

Well i can give you a briefing via PM tomorow about the Uljanovsk...

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isthvan

I would be weary grateful Golly… I currently have only few articles from early 90 editions of Jane’s and Croatian military journals… Most stuff I found on the net are mostly from late cold war NATO estimates…

bd popeye

Ahhhh..Gee..Golly we've been waiting a year to read about the Ulyansvsk.. So Golly is there any hope you will post the rest of the series???

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Gollevainen

Well I know I know...perhaps in these following two weeks as my time isen't spend here

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bd popeye

In 2006 golly sez;
In 2007 golly sez;
Hi golly..I know you are a busy man but if you do ever get around to posting any drawings or info on the Ulyanovsk this is the place to post that info!

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Gollevainen

Well not perhaps the most covering illustration, but my own derrivate of Uljanovsk for my imaginary Novgorods fleet project in Shipbucket.

And I know and deserve all the blame from not updating this...
But when you are trying to:
1.Drawn every soviet major surface combatant to ship bucket
2. Drawn imaginary and "what if" sovier warships for my allready mentioned novgorod's fleet project
3. Seriously write a novel
4. Manage school in reasonable way
5. Work in heating company with increased brisky (to assure regular job from there)
...in same time, some things automatically gets ignored


Tommorow when Im sober enough I shall ditch my PC vaults for everythign I have managed to find from uljanovsk proper.

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