SinoDefence Forum

MIGleader

just because Us used carriers back to the thirties dosn't mean the sailors now inheret their skill. and tactics change alot in 70 years.

china has excellent reputation with facs and small gunboats and subs becaus thats what the had used for decades for a possible soviet naval invasion.

tphuang

they will fly back, those that can fly back, great. Those that can't, no big deal, they just wasted a few more missiles. Of course, the assumption is that the J-5 moves a lot faster than carrier groups.

bd popeye

Oh boy there's a lot in this thread I could respond to..but for now I will concentrate my comments on one MIGleader ..Great name by the way.

USN tactics are constanly updated at the USN War College.

http://www.nwc.navy.mil/AboutNWC/

Exagerates it's sailors experience?? What are you talking about? In what way? Did you ever spend a single day in the USN? The USN has been deploying it's ships all over the world for many,many years.Over 100 in fact..The experience is real. I know I lived it. I spent 20 years in the USN. As for training..That's all a sailor does is practice(drill) or preform his or her job. Did you know that every single sailor,enlisted and officer, on board a USN ship is trained in firefighting and damage control? I myself went to Fire fighting school 9 times in 20 years. Did you know that even when inport in the US the USN ships carries out drills to improve it's warfighting capablity? Like I said ..the training and experience are real.

As an example my son,age 25, has been in the USN for 7 years. He is an sonar tech(surface). His previous commands were an Tico class and a Spruance class. The CIC(Combat Information Center) on those ships never shutdown inport. (except in re-fit)Those sailors are constanly tracking and looking at scopes, computers etc..reading the information the AGEIS system puts out. Presently my son is a instructor at advanved sonar tech(surface) school in San Diego.

If you have any doubt about the authenticity of my statements reguarding USN training check the US Navy web site in particulary The Navy News Stand. You will find all sorts of interesting information.

http://www.navy.mil/

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MIGleader

i did not mean to say the Us navy was not well trained. they are superb sailors and excellent tacticians. however on the history channel and the news, they always say the navy has such advanced tech and can take on any other navy in the world with minimal losses. they also brag how elit the force is. they say how their navy has such a great past. this is bullshit! many other navies in the world, including the chinese, train very hard and have engaged in combat before. i doubt ther Us could get away from a fight with the chinese without taking quite a few losses.

bd popeye

As a former USN Sailor thank you for your kind words.

Bulls**t!? Oh my goodness! Such lanuage!

I don't think anyone is bragging..It's just facts that are being reported. The USN is by no means perfect. In a conflict with the PLAN the USN may suffer some losses. But be defeated? No way.

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bd popeye

No I was not.I was enlisted. Being a Avation Ordanceman and then an aircrew equipmentman privied me to some interesting information. And friendships I would have not develpoed in another position. In addition I did have a very high intelligence clearance.

One of the squadrons I was assigned my clearance allowed me to scan intelligence photos.

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MIGleader

i did not say the plan had to destroy the cvbg. that would be impossible without huge chinese losses. all the chinese have to do is sink a few ships and maybe damage the carrier so the operation needs to be halted, while america may deem it too risky to keep fighting and pull out. the public would be outraged if a hundred US sailors died .

PLABUDDY

I agree...we should not over-estimate the US navy and under-estimate the PLAN..I doubt the US will send more than 1 CBG in a conflict of mainland and taiwan.

Totoro

Even though it's really impossible to guess what would US govt do in such a hypothetical situation years from now i'd say it's safe to assume there would not be any half hearted attempts. US would A) stay out of it completely military aid wise, B) strike chinese assets with cruise missiles and similar stand off weapons or C) mount a major attack on chinese assets, with intent to pretty much decimate PLAAF and PLAN, as well as chinas military industry.

Sending just one cbg and launching attacks from it at chinese forces would be rather risky. I seriously doubt US would do that. IF US does send its forces to defend taiwan it would be a much larger and potent force. I'm talking hundreds of USAAF planes being redirected to airports in range of the combat theatre, i'm talking at least 3 and probably more cbgs. Of course, the whole point would be to coordinate a major blow to china, so such an US force would need weeks to assemble, come in position and strike. Weeks from first missile/air strikes on taiwan, of course. China too couldn't really mount a successful ground forces invasion in a matter of days without alarming the neighbours.

MIGleader

most likely a large size cvbg with two carriers. thers no way they'd send in seven carriers to the area like last summer.

china can disguise it's intentions by preparing for an excercise.

Totoro

I don't understand, why is there no way for USN to send more than two CBGs? US has carriers permanently stationed in japan. It has near future plans to homeport a carrier in guam. And it could/would send more. Sure it'd take lots of time to do it, but better to be safe than sorry. Each time china does a major exercise near taiwan they send at least two carriers. In a case of a war they would opt for a lethal strike, using as much force at once as possible. That also explains why you can't really just mask the attack as an exercise...

Also, while a missile attack can be launched with virtually no warning, and while an air attack could be mounted with enough surprise that it catches taiwanese somewhat off guard, assembling the navy and ground forces for an actual invasion would take a long time and give taiwan/us a good warning.
I wonder if it'd take days before even an airdropped invasion force is tried, after first missile strikes.

MIGleader

not if you invite the russians to help you attach taiwan. the plan is already building up near taiwan. just keep it up for a few more years , and you can attack. this is getting gay. were supposed to be talking about chinese subs and the US's fear of them. china wouldn't attack taiwan till it declars independence, and Us wouldn't help taiwan if it did.

Totoro

I agree there, the best way to 'mask' such an invasion is to have the resources for it ready 24/7/365, for years. Sure, it's mighty costy to upkeep but IF your plan IS to invade in some sensible time period, it'd be worth it. That pretty much means having some 10 000 troops ready at all time (for the first wave), which is doable for a country like china. China doesn't have enough dedicated landing craft for more than that anyway, at the present. Trouble there might be with political implications, but i'm guessing west has too much invested in china's economy to try to set terms where china can and where it cant have the forces anchored and waiting.

Lots has been said already bout USN fear of chinese subs... i guess there's nothing to add for now. When someone does add something, maybe i'll reply.

tphuang

I'm pretty sure America would not attack targets deep inside China. If they do, i'm pretty sure there will be nuclear retaliation. I doubt America would risk that. attack the cost military stations with ballistic missiles and ship yards, most likely, but I think it will stop there.

As for Taiwan, it will most likely last a week in any invasion from China. This is not according to me. This is according to Taiwanese newspapers. They said they will last a maximum of 7 days by themselves.

MIGleader

Us cant just send ballistic missles to the taiwan area. plus the wouldn't do that. they are supposed to be on defence only. doing such a thing would temp the chinese to nuke the 7th fleet.