SinoDefence Forum

MIGleader

all their saying is that some songs have been experimentally fitted with aip. since everyone already knows china has aip. not much to brag about.

wz-10, its not much to say you have a few helicopter prototypes either.

most abc's i know love china more than US.

tphuang

you can choose to believe what you want to believe, but if there are enough analysis saying the same, I would tend to believe that it's most likely that way. Where do you think all the publications like JDW and Kanwa get their sources from? China, there we go.

MIGleader

traitor!!! i'd yell at you, but thats off topic.

so, subs do seem like the perfect solution for china. they are cheaper than most surface combatants. soon they will have so many of them. plus they are really hard to detect, and pack a punch.

soon china will have 12 song, 12 kilo, 4 yuan, 5 han, one xia, 2 type 93, and one type 94. add in all the mings and romeos that can act as sound decoys of distraction.

on the surface, use dozens of the new FAC combined with a few larger warships like the 52's and sovs.

in the sky, send in j-5 drones as decoys, as the main force use alot mkks and backfire bombers

this will assymetrical fleet will destroy any US cvbg.

tphuang

no, there is a big speculation on whether or not China should get backfires. Personally, I'd try to see if China can get the su-34/32FN, but I'm not sure the Russians are willing to sell that. So, the question will be how many/if any backfires/bears we should get?

tphuang

they are for different roles I think:
the bear can carry more weapons and bombs
the backfire is faster

sino52C

actually, the bear (depending on the version) is more of a ASW aircraft or Maritime Patrol (IMO, of course it can carry bombs/missiles) , the backfire is a strike plane against CVBGS.

AssassinsMace

Yawn!

The Pentagon uses China to try to scare Congress into spending more on the F-22 and F-35. Look at the result... CUTS! So what makes you think that Chinese subs are so special that the US would have to build Virginia class subs to counter? Are you actually saying that Chinese subs are so advanced that the current US fleet can't counter them? LOL!

Sounds like the same scare tactic as usual.

IDonT

The USN has fought war games and mock battles that are many times harder than what you proposed.

MIGleader

this is real, idont. not a wargame. you cant lose any ships in a wargame.

the chinse would not sent them all out. they would devise a tactic for them to manuver around the cvbg.

Totoro

Rush attacking an US CBG with subs that china has is close to impossible. They're just way too noisy when going full speed and that speed is still 10 knots slower than CBG speed. Subs would be useful for ambushing a CBG, as it was said before. even then, you'd basically get one chance for a coordinated attack and torpedo salvo as anything significiantly faster than 5 knots at battery power would help USN greatly at detecting the subs.

Like with an air attack, key is the numbers. overwhelm the defences.

There is no way to maneuver around the cbg to get into good attacking position. Protection is the same all around. If you want to attack it, you will have to fight through the defences and you will have to prepared for vast losses/casulties. If it's possible to use enough of airplane drones to make the US forces waste their resources on them (and here i'm talking about hundreds of drones) then the chances are getting pretty darn good. Still, you need to launch antiship missiles out of range of aegis reach and you need to launch them in sufficient numbers to break through the aegis. With all the ships in the CBG with all the SM2s, sea sparrows, RAMs and phalanx my rough estimate is close to 200 supersonic missiles if you wanna put the carrier out of comission. With all planes carrying those missiles, all the fighter cover, the drones, that pretty much means you must be able to launch and coordinate an air attack numbering close to 500 aircraft. That's a huge undertaking, something that needs lots of practice and time, and is something that'd be detected fairy early, giving the CBG the option to rethink it's course and perhaps even sail back, trying to get out of range.

IDonT

The attack force will have to get through:
The carrier's airwing with AEW support.
Standard 2 ER
Standard 2
ESSM
RAM or Phalanx

Totoro

The whole idea is to launch the antiship missiles while out of reach of aegis. That way only missiles need to get through the shield, aircraft themselves stay out of range.

Of course, before that happens, one would need to fight through the forward positioned patrolling hornets and their AEW support, fight through any possible forward positioned aegis ships (which im not as sure would be the case, i'm still saying it'd be wiser for USN to stick all their aegis ships together), fight through the incoming second wave of hornets which would be sent as soon as the forward E2 detects the incoming force and then you'd be safe to launch the missiles. Sure, it'd mean basically sacrificing lots of planes/drones to fight through but ultimately it's possible.

Of course, that's all providing A) you locate the CBG B) you can prepare and launch such a huge attack without enemy interference and C) that the mentioned CBG is alone, too far from any possible other CBGs or airbases from where additional help could arrive.

MIGleader

seeing how the ambush force is going opposite of the cvbg, they dont have move much. wait for the cvbg to come to you. the plan certainly has hundreds onf ming, romeos, and j-5 fighter drones to distract to cvbg. remember, many of the weapons china has were designed to defeat aegis, so i see at least a few losses on the US side, but not the entire cvbg. but the loss of a burke and a carrier and a few dozen aircraft will be enough to make the fleet turn back.

tphuang

can you provide the current stats of the US fleet? It's kind of hard to compare nuclear subs to the diesel subs.

Also, the diesel subs don't have to move. All we need is to park a lot of subs around Taiwan strait and wait for the American navy. Use some kind of Early warning system to detect if the Americans are within 250 KM of the subs and then fire the antiship missiles from the subs. Remember, all of the subs in China's arsenals are equiped with missiles of 200km+ range.

tphuang

Just for reference, song sub can move at 22 knots dived, so that's only about 8 knots behind CBG. Yuan sub's stats are not given, but you can assume it to be the same or faster, since it's the higher class. Kilo subs can move at 20 knots dived.