SinoDefence Forum

UCSDAE

I think everyone has heard about the Somali pirates by now. Anyone have any thoughts on as to whether PLAN should send ships over? There were quite a few Chinese ships has been hijacked(a HK regiestered tanker and a fishing ship most recently).

Personally, I think this will be a great way to let some of the naval officers gain real combat experiences, not to mention it can be a great PR opportunity after the melanine milk scandal.

Thoughts?

AssassinsMace

My bet would be the reaction is alarming. China ain't India. I can see the headlines now that it's overkill. Every shipping company is going to have to hire armed security.

bladerunner

yes by attacking and sinking the pirates boats with fatalities, is denying them human rights to a fair trial

FriedRiceNSpice

Actually according to international law and the laws of the sea, it is perfectly legal to engage and neutralize groups clearly involved in piracy. Individuals engaging in piracy in international waters are also denied many basic legal rights. The problem is that many of these cases involve a hostage situation, and rash handling of such cases will occur public backlash back home. Furthermore, the PLAN has logistical concerns when it comes to fighting piracy off the coast of Africa.

Mr T

I doubt it. They're very opposed to it, as are the insurance companies - putting armed men on all those ships would just increase the chance of people getting killed. Also it's very expensive. As things stand they prefer to pay the ransom.

If anything happens you'll see the ships upgraded with defensive technology to stop them boarding in the first place.

SteelBird

I read a news that the Indian nay have sunk a pirate mother ship off the coast of Somalia. Why can't PLAN do it?

http://www.suntimes.com/news/world/1...111908.article

PrOeLiTeZ

international waters hold no laws and no regulations. so if china was, though i doubt, to engage in combat and inflict casuality upon the other party, china technically under law did nothing wrong and the actions were never taken place. no trial, no human rights, no human abuse, nothing in international waters. its a foolish move if china was to engage in combat just to build up their status due to some food problems. food problems such as the milk scandal and linking it to military is completly non-related, and different departments.

the best defensive options without armed weapons, probably is non-lethal ones to arm the crew with. taser and sprays would be a good idea.

Maggern

Actually, in international waters there is a kind of regulation. Every ship is still under the law of the flag state (meaning the country whose flag the ship flies). This means Chinese vessels would not be able to pursue any action that is illegal in China (meaning they would not be able to shoot drowning people for kicks). There are a lot of other regulations as well, though they are not relevant in this case

Piracy is a special case. Any military vessel is allowed to engage pirates in international waters, and even in territorial waters if the coastal state has no means of dealing with the pirates, or simply refuse to do so (in which case it would be a completely different story). Usually pirate-hunting is carried out with the consent of the coastal state of course, not for any judicial matter but simply because it's good manners.

The piracy-problem outside Somalia (and in Malacca) is international, and all international players participate to combat the problem (NATO, Russia, India..). As such, China should at least participate with some kind of symbolic force, to show that it's able to do its part to ensure the safe exercise of the freedom of the sea.

Engineer

You are forgetting that the West would conveniently ignore such rule when it comes to China. Beside, China doesn't have enough destroyers to spare a few to Africa coast.

Maggern

I think the West would have a hard time trying to stop China.
How would they be able to deny Chinese ships to engage pirates? Firing at the Chinese? Unlikely.

International Law still proclaims that any and all ships are allowed to move freely in International Waters. If the West tries to hinder that, they'd have an ICJ (International Court of Justice) ruling in their face.

All the West can really do is to deny China intelligence about pirate whereabouts and refuse to cooperate. That won't really stop the Chinese, but it would make the Chinese mission perhaps not as efficient as otherwise.

FriedRiceNSpice

Well, they got all those 051s and 052s still... pretty much useless for anything other than dealing with pirates.

Same with the frigates with the exception of 054/054A.

AssassinsMace

I just saw on TV yesterday, I believe I heard it was last year alone, it cost shipping companies $30 million dollars paying ransom to these pirates. So some of these companies are looking into hiring armed security like Blackwater to travel with their ships.

AssassinsMace

It's irrelevant what the laws are. The media can spin anything. For example, how can one turn the Obama victory and spin it to make China racist? Just read some of the news articles after the election of Western journalists who report on China. Most were veiled but the most straightforward remark was something like, " Obama would never become President of China because the Chinese are racists." No, Obama would never become President of China because the Chinese never enslaved nor stole the lands of the African people. And how many Western countries have had a leader of "obvious" African descent? None as of today. Before this you'd hear Americans chide China because they've never had a woman leader of the country. See how they spin nothing into something or commit blatant hypocrisy without a second thought of self-reflection. Chinese naval warships in the Indian Ocean on routine patrol alone will set-off the alarms. They don't have to even fire a shot. Plus take a look at the alarm over Sino-African relations and trade. Pirates serve their interests in disrupting it. The only thing the pirates have to do is claim they're fighting against Chinese imperialism and they'll get sympathy. Look at the hypocrisy of what is and what's not terrorism?

Scyth

I heard on tv yesterday that the UN was going to take actions against piracy so in that case China COULD 'legally' deploy warships if China wants to do so. IF China is going to deploy ships to Somalia, what ships would they sent and how many of them?
Personally I don't think that China will sent any ships to Somalia because they don't have much of 'modern' ships for self defence etc.

bladerunner

I think they have more frigates than the UK or India, so I think if they wanted to they could spare one of their later variants.
It would actually give their sevicemen the chance to get some active experience in a blue water environment and a long way from home, without arousing concern from other countries.