PLAN submarines Thread II

[kw64]

I can't help but noticed the flank sonar groove on the third photo on the right looked very different from other two photos.

[tphuang]

some pictures of the second Yuan, this is apparently already in a PLAN base.

[crobato]

I don't think these pictures are any different from the ones before. It still looks like the same ESF base at the mouth of Huangpu river.

[tphuang]

I don't think these pictures are any different from the ones before. It still looks like the same ESF base at the mouth of Huangpu river.

They are in the same base, but I just didn't realize it was a base before, because it was all by itself there.

[crobato]

When are these particular pictures taken? If these pictures were taken after the "second" Yuan left Shanghai, this maybe the "third" Yuan instead.

[tphuang]

When are these particular pictures taken? If these pictures were taken after the "second" Yuan left Shanghai, this maybe the "third" Yuan instead.

I think these were recent. Personally, there are 3 Yuans (not including the ones in Wuhan). One that is the 2004 one, second is this one at the base and the third is undergoing sea tests. Although, I'm probably just being optimistic.

[crobato]

My theory as the Yuan goes.

1. The one launched in 2004. Went to Hainan, and recently returned to ESF.

2. One launched in January 2007 (assuming photo date is correct). This is probably the first of the Yuan B.

3. One launched in December 2007, was in Shanghai Dec-Jan, now undergoing sea trials.

4. One in the Wuhan floating dock, may have been launched already. Perhaps the one in Shanghai now (or the 3rd one just returning to the same spot).

There might be more because no one has a 24/7 surveillance over Wuhan.

[crobato]

Analyzing some of the new Yuan pictures, the pictures where it seems to appear alone or isolated in some place, are in fact, altered. The buildings are either removed or replaced by forests, or even in one case, the sea. The fact is that the sub still goes to the same spot and pier like you see in Post 106.

The background manipulationm, an indication of censorship---validates the surroundings of the sub might potentially be sensitive, which means its a PLAN base. I believe its the PLAN base at the mouth of Huangpu river intersecting the Yangtze, which is also being hanged out by all sorts of ships like 054As, Sovs, Houbeis, etc,. Its a very busy and very public section of water, akin to hanging out in the middle of New York harbor.

Something I noticed on the 093. The nose of all the 093s have this wake sensor on this arrangement with one small stalk in front of a larger stalk that has a fin trailing it. Even the image of the two embellished "094" and the image of the subs in the PLA 80th Anniversary hall has this. One exception is an image of an 093 in quite some detail but the background has been PS'ed with a background at Wuhan shipyard.

The 094 has a similar sensor, but it does not have the smaller stalk in front of it. Newer pictures of the Han and the Xia also shows the same sensor without the small stalk. Early pictures of the Han and the Xia shows a much different looking sensor, which almost stands up like a vertical fin.

The Song has a stalk followed by two other smaller stalks behind it. From above, the stalks are on a triangular pattern. The Yuan's sensor stalk is just a single one but appears to be telescopic, meaning it can be withdrawn, so that it actually disappears completely in some pictures.

[crobato]

Forget about new subs for a moment. Here is one very rare pic of a Romeo or Ming in drydock that shows you the shape of the bow and the sonars.

[crobato]

I saw this quip in the CMF, and I won't lower myself to respond there. But such posts are reason why the CMF has gone to the dogs.

03/04/2008, 12:15:24

Pic 1 is from Sinodefence.com, so claimed 093 with Diving plane on the bridge, and Pic 2 and 3 are taken during the 80th PLA anniversary with title "next generation SSN" with Diving plane under water probably on the bow. How can 093 with two different designs? Why don't you tell me with your updated advanced information pulled from your ass?

My golly this is so rich.

Anyone with some basic sense of naval history can tell you that one of the most famous classes of submarines had its earlier variant with planes on the sail, and then its later variant, without the planes on the sail, having the diving planes moved to the bow instead in a retractable form.

Can anyone name that class? ((lots of people raising their hands up)).

Yes, its the Los Angeles class of nuclear submarines.

Simply said, the relocation of the diving planes are no indication of a new submarine class. Much of the other details of the sail between the 093 with the planes on the sail, and the "new generation submarine" shown in the PLA exhibition hall are similar or shared in common.

[King_Comm]

Forget about new subs for a moment. Here is one very rare pic of a Romeo or Ming in drydock that shows you the shape of the bow and the sonars.

It's a 033, note the shape of the conning tower.

[crobato]

It's a 033, note the shape of the conning tower.

Actually what happened later was that a fence was built around the bottom of the sail, which probably improved the hydrodynamics and reduced flow noise. From a visual perspective, the sail now has a different shape but its really still the same, just with a skirt around the base.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...606147_JPG.jpg

The real reliable means of telling a Romeo and a Ming is that the Ming has a vertical tail fin that is visible when the sub is on the surface. This is the result of a cross shaped tail and horizontal fins. The Romeo still uses the D shaped tail fin that was characteristic of the German Type XXI submarine design.

[King_Comm]

http://photocdn.sohu.com/20071121/Img253379516.jpg

Note the 035 with the straight conning tower front and the 033 with the stepped front, and there are a few good photos 035 and 033 submarines while they were still blue in the same squadron on a 1999 issue of Naval and Merchant Ships, I am sure it's some where in my garage, I will try to dig it up and scan the pictures.

[crobato]

http://photocdn.sohu.com/20071121/Img253379516.jpg

Note the 035 with the straight conning tower front and the 033 with the stepped front, and there are a few good photos 035 and 033 submarines while they were still blue in the same squadron on a 1999 issue of Naval and Merchant Ships, I am sure it's some where in my garage, I will try to dig it up and scan the pictures.

You can check with this thread at the CDF.

http://www.china-defense.com/forum/i...topic=152&st=0

There is a lot of pictures here, and many of them are Mings with the stepped tower. Look closely at the stepped tower and its nothing but a fence wrapped around the base of the tower.

[King_Comm]

From those pictures, it seems that all 035's have the lower part of their conning towers enclosed. I think there might be a sonar in there.

One 035 in the middle, two 033 on the sides.