PLAN submarines Thread II

[SinoSoldier]

Not this specific sub, but another prototype sub was equipped with a pump jet.

Care to elaborate on this prototype sub?

[no_name]

close up on the top part of the new sub:



There is a gap in middle. Work in progress? An utility hatch designed to open sideways? A new missile hatch?

[Jeff Head]

close up on the top part of the new sub:



There is a gap in middle. Work in progress? An utility hatch designed to open sideways? A new missile hatch?

nice pic. That is one long sail.

[no_name]

I was thinking could it be for testing some sort of self defense anti-air system.

[SinoSoldier]

I was thinking could it be for testing some sort of self defense anti-air system.

Like the kind on the Kilo and Sindhughosh class submarines? I see.

[tphuang]

some pictures from Shanghai of the 6th Yuan (2nd 039B) with the new SSK. I'm personally afraid I'm going to soon loose track of the submarine count again after the 5th Yuan went somewhere else.

[asif iqbal]

Pakistan has signed a deal back few ago for 6 Qing class submarine equipped with CJ-10K which could carry nuclear warheds, I hope this news is true!


Pakistan's efforts to have a sea-based minimum credible nuclear deterrent vis-a-vis India took a significant step forward last month when the state-owned, Wuhan-based China State Shipbuilding Industrial Corp (CSIC) ferried the first Qing-class conventional attack submarine (SSK) to Shanghai to begin a year-long series of sea trials, which is likely to include the test-firing of three CJ-10K submarine-launched, 1,500km-range land attack cruise missiles (LACM) capable of being armed with unitary tactical nuclear warheads. Called the Qing-class SSK, it is a variant of the Type 041A Improved Yuan-class SSK, which is also due to begin its sea trials later this month.


It is now believed that the contract inked between CSIC and Pakistan early last April (see FORCE April 2011, pages 16-17) calls for the CSIC's Wuhan-based Wuchang Shipyard to supply six Qing-class SSKs, all of which will be equipped with a Stirling-cycle AIP system and will be able to carry up to three nuclear warhead-carrying CJ-10K LACMs each. The double-hulled Qing-class SSK, with a submerged displacement close to 3,600 tonnes, bears a close resemblance to the Russian Type 636M SSK, and features hull-retractable foreplanes and hydrodynamically streamlined sail. The first such SSK was launched in Wuhan on September 9 last year, and a total of three such SSKs are on order from China's PLA Navy as well. The AIP system for the Qing-class SSK was developed by the 711th Research Institute of CSIC. R&D work began in June 1996, with a 100-strong team of scientists and engineers led by Dr Jin Donghan being involved in developing the Stirling-cycle engine, while another team led Professor Ma Weiming of China's Naval Engineering University began developing the all-electric AIP system. The two projects entered the production engineering stage in 2007, with the Shanghai Qiyao Propulsion Technology Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of the 711th Institute, becoming the principal industrial entity charged with producing the AIP system. Incidentally, the Qing-class SSK's all-electric propulsion system is a derivative of a similar system that was developed about a decade ago for the PLA Navy's six Type 093 Shang-class SSGNs and three Type 094 Jin-class SSBNs.

The submarine-launched CJ-10K LACM has been developed by the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp's (CASIC) Hubei-based Ninth Academy (also known as the Sanjiang Aerospace Group, or 066 Base) on cooperation with the Third Academy's Beijing-based Xinghang Electromechanical Equipment Factory (159 Factory). Final assembly of the CJ-10K is undertaken by the Beijing-based Hangxing Machine Building Factory (239 Factory). The CJ-10K features an imaging infra-red optronic system for terminal homing, and it makes use of a ring laser gyro-based inertial navigation system combined with a GPS receiver to receive navigational updates from China's 'Beidou' constellation of GPS navigation satellites.

In another development, during Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani's four-day official visit to China beginning May 17, the decks were cleared for the Pakistan Navy to acquire for a 10-year lease period the two Jiangkai I-class Type 054 guided-missile frigates (FFG) Ma'anshan (FFG-525) and Wenzhou (FFG-526), which have been in service with the PLA Navy's East Sea Fleet since 2005


Qing-class SSK
Jiangkai 1-class Type 054 FFG
Z-9EC helicopter

[HKSDU]

some pictures from Shanghai of the 6th Yuan (2nd 039B) with the new SSK. I'm personally afraid I'm going to soon loose track of the submarine count again after the 5th Yuan went somewhere else.

That's why I compiled a list, to help me keep track the number of PLAN vessels in service or under construction.

PLAN Vessel Inventory

[duskylim]

Pakistan has signed a deal back few ago for 6 Qing class submarine equipped with CJ-10K which could carry nuclear warheds, I hope this news is true!


Pakistan's efforts to have a sea-based minimum credible nuclear deterrent vis-a-vis India took a significant step forward last month when the state-owned, Wuhan-based China State Shipbuilding Industrial Corp (CSIC) ferried the first Qing-class conventional attack submarine (SSK) to Shanghai to begin a year-long series of sea trials, which is likely to include the test-firing of three CJ-10K submarine-launched, 1,500km-range land attack cruise missiles (LACM) capable of being armed with unitary tactical nuclear warheads. Called the Qing-class SSK, it is a variant of the Type 041A Improved Yuan-class SSK, which is also due to begin its sea trials later this month.


It is now believed that the contract inked between CSIC and Pakistan early last April (see FORCE April 2011, pages 16-17) calls for the CSIC's Wuhan-based Wuchang Shipyard to supply six Qing-class SSKs, all of which will be equipped with a Stirling-cycle AIP system and will be able to carry up to three nuclear warhead-carrying CJ-10K LACMs each. The double-hulled Qing-class SSK, with a submerged displacement close to 3,600 tonnes, bears a close resemblance to the Russian Type 636M SSK, and features hull-retractable foreplanes and hydrodynamically streamlined sail. The first such SSK was launched in Wuhan on September 9 last year, and a total of three such SSKs are on order from China's PLA Navy as well. The AIP system for the Qing-class SSK was developed by the 711th Research Institute of CSIC. R&D work began in June 1996, with a 100-strong team of scientists and engineers led by Dr Jin Donghan being involved in developing the Stirling-cycle engine, while another team led Professor Ma Weiming of China's Naval Engineering University began developing the all-electric AIP system. The two projects entered the production engineering stage in 2007, with the Shanghai Qiyao Propulsion Technology Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of the 711th Institute, becoming the principal industrial entity charged with producing the AIP system. Incidentally, the Qing-class SSK's all-electric propulsion system is a derivative of a similar system that was developed about a decade ago for the PLA Navy's six Type 093 Shang-class SSGNs and three Type 094 Jin-class SSBNs.

The submarine-launched CJ-10K LACM has been developed by the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp's (CASIC) Hubei-based Ninth Academy (also known as the Sanjiang Aerospace Group, or 066 Base) on cooperation with the Third Academy's Beijing-based Xinghang Electromechanical Equipment Factory (159 Factory). Final assembly of the CJ-10K is undertaken by the Beijing-based Hangxing Machine Building Factory (239 Factory). The CJ-10K features an imaging infra-red optronic system for terminal homing, and it makes use of a ring laser gyro-based inertial navigation system combined with a GPS receiver to receive navigational updates from China's 'Beidou' constellation of GPS navigation satellites.

In another development, during Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani's four-day official visit to China beginning May 17, the decks were cleared for the Pakistan Navy to acquire for a 10-year lease period the two Jiangkai I-class Type 054 guided-missile frigates (FFG) Ma'anshan (FFG-525) and Wenzhou (FFG-526), which have been in service with the PLA Navy's East Sea Fleet since 2005


Qing-class SSK
Jiangkai 1-class Type 054 FFG
Z-9EC helicopter

Sir:

So what you're saying is that this new monster sub being built by Wuchang is actually the first in a class of conventionally powered form of SSB(K)? for the Pakistani Navy?

That would also mean that it is NOT meant for the PLAN.

Furthermore, it also claims that China has agreed to export a nuclear-capable form of its DH-10 cruise to a third-country - which is a gross violation of the NPT - Non-Proliferation Treaty and the MTCR - Missile Control Technology Regime - which although China is NOT a signatory it nevertheless respects.

Lastly it claims that China agreed to export its secret AIP technology along with the subs.

Permit me to be just a little bit skeptical.

[asif iqbal]

Sir:

So what you're saying is that this new monster sub being built by Wuchang is actually the first in a class of conventionally powered form of SSB(K)? for the Pakistani Navy?

That would also mean that it is NOT meant for the PLAN.

Furthermore, it also claims that China has agreed to export a nuclear-capable form of its DH-10 cruise to a third-country - which is a gross violation of the NPT - Non-Proliferation Treaty and the MTCR - Missile Control Technology Regime - which although China is NOT a signatory it nevertheless respects.

Lastly it claims that China agreed to export its secret AIP technology along with the subs.

Permit me to be just a little bit skeptical.

well it doesnt mean the first SSK is going straight to PN, it only shows that PN is interested in aquiring Chinese Submarine, dont read too much in the detail, U214 is now off the agenda for PN,after all the talk and years it was very deeply considered and tested by PN for purchase but they decided to go against it, also Scorpeane is off because India is already getting it so PN must really be interested in a Chinese sub and it must match the performance of the German and French otherwise PN wouldnt drop both

as for NPT, M11 missiles are not allowed for export but China delivered them, enrichment centrifudges are not allowed under IAEA but China supplied them to Pakistan, CJ-10K LACM would just need a Pakistani paint job problem solved

as for senstive technology, China has always matched Western technology, China sold its only foreign sale of advanced AWACS to PAF, Shaanxi ZDK-03 , PAF was so pleased with its performance they cut the Swedish Erieye order from 8 to 4

Pakistan has made sure no Americans come close to JF17 thats why its based out in Peshawar and they are going to get SD10 BVR with it, there is no concern for senstive technology ending up in wrong hands

[tphuang]

well it doesnt mean the first SSK is going straight to PN, it only shows that PN is interested in aquiring Chinese Submarine, dont read too much in the detail, U214 is now off the agenda for PN,after all the talk and years it was very deeply considered and tested by PN for purchase but they decided to go against it, also Scorpeane is off because India is already getting it so PN must really be interested in a Chinese sub and it must match the performance of the German and French otherwise PN wouldnt drop both

as for NPT, M11 missiles are not allowed for export but China delivered them, enrichment centrifudges are not allowed under IAEA but China supplied them to Pakistan, CJ-10K LACM would just need a Pakistani paint job problem solved

China has to start pretending that it respects international treaties at certain point and exporting any kind of missiles that violate MTCR rules would get them into a lot of trouble.

as for senstive technology, China has always matched Western technology, China sold its only foreign sale of advanced AWACS to PAF, Shaanxi ZDK-03 , PAF was so pleased with its performance they cut the Swedish Erieye order from 8 to 4

Pakistan has made sure no Americans come close to JF17 thats why its based out in Peshawar and they are going to get SD10 BVR with it, there is no concern for senstive technology ending up in wrong hands

look, there are many reasons to be super skeptical about this source. A huge portion of Chinese bbs community still thinks that this new boat is a SLBM test vessel, so only one will ever be built. Now even if it is not, they are incorporating so much new changes to this that it could easily have problems and not be a product that PN would want. There is nothing that China has ever exported to Pakistan in the recent years that would carry as much technological risk as this submarine. If it does go into serial production, it will be at least another 3 or 4 years before they sort out all of the problems in a design like this. Think how long it took to go from first prototype to mass production for 039 and then 039A. I don't understand why any rational thinking person in PN would put an order for it at this point. I understand why some fanboys that love to talk about new technologies would salivate at the potential of it, but you could very well be dreaming about a white elephant here.

In the mean time, I read what the people posted on this. There is no such thing as 041 in PLAN. The first 4 "Yuans" are classified as 039A within PLAN and the next few are classified as 039B. And then, I read people call this the "Qing" class or the "043" class? Those are all fanboy designations. There is not a single legitimate Chinese source that has given a real designation to this boat.

[tphuang]

On a totally different note, we see two 093s from the Sanya naval base. The same set of photos also showed 171 beside it.

[asif iqbal]

China has to start pretending that it respects international treaties at certain point and exporting any kind of missiles that violate MTCR rules would get them into a lot of trouble.

look, there are many reasons to be super skeptical about this source. A huge portion of Chinese bbs community still thinks that this new boat is a SLBM test vessel, so only one will ever be built. Now even if it is not, they are incorporating so much new changes to this that it could easily have problems and not be a product that PN would want. There is nothing that China has ever exported to Pakistan in the recent years that would carry as much technological risk as this submarine. If it does go into serial production, it will be at least another 3 or 4 years before they sort out all of the problems in a design like this. Think how long it took to go from first prototype to mass production for 039 and then 039A. I don't understand why any rational thinking person in PN would put an order for it at this point. I understand why some fanboys that love to talk about new technologies would salivate at the potential of it, but you could very well be dreaming about a white elephant here.

In the mean time, I read what the people posted on this. There is no such thing as 041 in PLAN. The first 4 "Yuans" are classified as 039A within PLAN and the next few are classified as 039B. And then, I read people call this the "Qing" class or the "043" class? Those are all fanboy designations. There is not a single legitimate Chinese source that has given a real designation to this boat.

well i am sure PN and PLAN know better, if they have entered into talks there must be something

we can speculate alot but it wont bring us closer to what PN will be getting but few things are known for sure

back in mid-2009 U214 deal with Germany was pretty much a done deal, 90% of the deal had been finalised and delivery times had been agreed, Turkey was also on board, then all of a sudden PN dropped the order and shifted to visits at China shipbuilders

whatever the new Chinese submarine is it has attracted the attention of PN who has extensive submarine experience and knowledge, with regards to which exact submarine PN will get it could be a specificaly designed and equipped submarine made for requirments of PN which will borrow technology from existing/under development Chinese submarines which includes Type 041

[Hendrik_2000]

well i am sure PN and PLAN know better, if they have entered into talks there must be something

we can speculate alot but it wont bring us closer to what PN will be getting but few things are known for sure

back in mid-2009 U214 deal with Germany was pretty much a done deal, 90% of the deal had been finalised and delivery times had been agreed, Turkey was also on board, then all of a sudden PN dropped the order and shifted to visits at China shipbuilders

whatever the new Chinese submarine is it has attracted the attention of PN who has extensive submarine experience and knowledge, with regards to which exact submarine PN will get it could be a specificaly designed and equipped submarine made for requirments of PN which will borrow technology from existing/under development Chinese submarines which includes Type 041

As if Pakistan has ton of money to spend Let be realistic so far China grant Pakistan all the new toy . I don't believe a single minute that this "wet dream" will be realized!

Pakistan is close to bankrupt. she better use the limited fund to better the life of her people

[nosh]

China has to start pretending that it respects international treaties at certain point and exporting any kind of missiles that violate MTCR rules would get them into a lot of trouble.

Well, I don't remember seeing Unite States got into any trouble selling JASSM to Australia, South Korea and Netherlands, not to mention selling Tomahawks and Trident to UK.