This is a discussion on PLAN submarines Thread II within the Navy forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; If it is 6500 tons that is... There's still some confusion over the actual role of the "Qing". Some people ...
If it is 6500 tons that is...
There's still some confusion over the actual role of the "Qing". Some people think it's a one off "test sub" to supplement the PLAN's current single Golf or maybe it's a cruise missile carrier or even AShBM carrier...
Compare to Improved Yuan below:
while the submarine near it has 9 semi-rounds, the same as the newly built "normal" Yuan in the photo below:
Last edited by tanlixiang28776; 03-24-2011 at 08:59 PM.
The big one is one-off replacement for "Great Wall 200" the old SLBM missile testing boat.
That new submarine, whatever you wish to call it, is a surprise to me.
China just started mass-producing the new, improved (sounds like a detergent commercial) Yuans with a slightly larger size and more hydrodynamic fin (conning tower).
Now just like when they started to mass-produce the Song-class, then they spring this new model out.
Although I am an avid reader of and highly-respect Hui Tong, I think his repeated thesis of technical problems delaying the commissioning of the new submarines is incorrect.
Its more of a fly-before-you-buy situation - something like that took place when the Oliver Hazard Perry frigates were brought out.
The 1st model took a long time to produce, and the US Navy took an equally long time to evaluate it.
I believe I see a pattern emerging - first with the new model Song's - taking the longest for shake down and training.
After an extensive evaluation (much more than just a shakedown) the PLAN gives it checklist for improvements before making the big serial order.
This was just what happened in the case of the Perry-class frigates.
A second 'improved' model is then produced and tested against the PLAN requirements, if they are met, then this improved model (in the case of the Song - the 039G) becomes the production model.
Of course this took longer in the case of the Song as so many new technologies were being tried out - and also for the PLAN as they had to train crews for the new submarine.
When the Yuan appeared the same pattern can be observed.
No surprise that the 1st model, takes a long time to evaluate then, after a long series of improvements and modifications a second or third improved model is evaluated - then mass-production begins.
Now this new submarine (039B?) appears 3 years after the 1st Yuan, and is now undergoing trials just as the Yuan's enter mass-production.
If as the Pakistani's claim they will purchase then license-produce Chinese model AIP boats that can only be the 039A - Yuans.
China will be providing Pakistan with a submarine which she can already mass-produce and which has already undergone considerable testing and use - a proven design.
This new sub is very interesting.
If as you claim, the Yuans displace more than 4000 tons surfaced? and already use AIP then they alongside the latest Japanese models with be the most modern and certainly most numerous conventional class of submarines in Asia-Pacific waters.
These new boats at an estimated 6000+ tons surfaced would very easily be the largest conventional subs in service in any navy.
The real question here is what is their mission?
Patrol in very distant waters - off Midway, Hawaii or Guam? Maybe even off the US West Coast?
What is there armament?
Perhaps not just conventional torpedoes but also a wide array of submarine-launched cruise missiles - both anti-ship and land-attack.
Their size certainly does not preclude such extensive armament.
Does China want to park a few dozen strike boats off major US bases and strategic points for 'conventional' strike and retaliation?
Only future events will answer our speculations.
Last edited by duskylim; 03-25-2011 at 09:28 AM.
Last edited by i.e.; 03-25-2011 at 10:50 AM.
I'm not sure if this sub is a test platform, simply because we can't seem to see the VLS tube in the conning tower as of yet and also because this sub does have some not redundant noise reduction features -- why put all this into a whole new, nearly completely new design (compared to the Yuan) which is just going to be a test submarine?
I suppose we'll know in a year or two when the second of these should come out. If it doesn't then this current sub is probably a test platform.
I measured the new sub from the beginning of the tail to the front and got 84.5 meters
I did the same with the Yuan in the middle and got 66.5 meters
I measured the Yuan on the right from tail to front and got 75 meters.
Going by that proportion the new sub would be 95 meters long.
Considering that this is a SSK (China does not build SSN at WuChang), what kind of powerplant arrangement do you think is needed to power something that's 6000 ton in displacement? Please consider their existing power plant options with Song and Yuan.
Last edited by adeptitus; 03-29-2011 at 09:32 AM.