PLAN carrier thread III

[dh19440113]

I think we should be able to talk about the reason why the PLAN want carriers and the technology being developed for future carriers. These topic may be related to other topic, but are important to discuss and to understand the overall picture.
From my point of view, all my post contain the word carrier or pertain to some aspect of carrier operation. I don't think I am Offtopic Sir.

[dh19440113]

Nemo also brings up a good point, AWACS is essential to air operation. If China's carriers can reduce Taiwan AWACS operation and enhance its own AWACS safety than PLAAF/PLAN airarm will have significant intel advantage over its adversary.

To ZYUN: its never too late, Taiwan is a prize china wants. The Carrier Project, the modernization of Air Force and Marines are all toward that end. To gain superiority over Taiwan Strait. Unlike USA carrier program, china doesn't want power projection over the world it just want what it consider rightfully theirs. When PLAN carriers are ready and Taiwan manage to declare independance and join UN China will invade. PLAN carriers will be on the forefront no doubt about it.

[flyzies]

If the PRC leadership only wants carriers for a "show of force" (key word there being "SHOW") and pride, then thats definitely the wrong reasons to acquire it. If PRC has one or two carriers in operation during a conflict with anybody, then itll utilise resources to defend it...this may take valuable resources away from achieving the actual objectives of the conflict because the leadership doesnt want to "lose face" to see its carrier damaged or sunk.

Point im trying to make is, PLAN needs to build up its surface fleet, SSNs, anti-air warfare and ASW capabilities before it puts a carrier into operation. The fleet thats going to be protecting the future carrier needs to be fully trained and ready when the carrier is finally launched.

[dh19440113]

PLAN has inadequite protection for its carrier, it needs more effective distroyers, nuclear attack sub and cruisers to form a strike package.
The fleet also need a network data link where information can be shared between all vessel in the fleet and where the carrier can command all vessel in the fleet.

[Autumn Child]

PLAN has inadequite protection for its carrier, it needs more effective distroyers, nuclear attack sub and cruisers to form a strike package.
The fleet also need a network data link where information can be shared between all vessel in the fleet and where the carrier can command all vessel in the fleet.

Is there such thing as adequite protection for aircraft carriers. There are post in this forum that discuss the topic. News of Chinese submarines sneaking on US aircraft carriers raise some doubt about the security of large target like aircraft carriers. Anyways, I don't see how chinese carriers can be affective in the Taiwan straits if a war breaks loose.

[AmiGanguli]

There are other reasons to have carriers that don't necessarily involve launching invasions (of Taiwan or anywhere else).

Rapid response to natural disasters is one. China's inability to send aid after the Asian tsunami has been cited before as one of the catalysts for finally getting serious about a carrier.

Another is protecting vital supply lines during conflict. For example, Iran supplies a lot of oil to China. A Chinese carrier would help to protect that supply in the event of an attempted blockade.

Of course a Chinese carrier would be involved if it ever came to blows over Taiwan - China would want to bring all of its resources to bear. But military spending targeted specifically at Taiwan would not go towards carriers.

If you look at a map of Taiwan and the mainland, notice the farthest coast of Taiwan is only about 400km from the mainland. J-10s are estimated to have a range of 1300km without refueling. Mainland airbases can cover all of Taiwan, and even provide air cover for destroyers, frigates, subs, and landing craft operating on the far side of the island. And they can do it more effectively and more cheaply than an aircraft carrier.

... Ami.

[dh19440113]

point well taken, but taiwan isn't a weakling. It has 150 f-16, 50 mirage 2000, and 150 IDF Jiang ching kuo a modern fighter which general dynamic help design. It takes more than mainland airbases to acquire air superioity over taiwan.

To blockade taiwan, china must also cut off possible western air lanes. subs can't do that, aircraft carrier can.
If anything, a carrier significantly increase the chances of success when taking a island, especially a hardened target like taiwan.

[AmiGanguli]

point well taken, but taiwan isn't a weakling. It has 150 f-16, 50 mirage 2000, and 150 IDF Jiang ching kuo a modern fighter which general dynamic help design. It takes more than mainland airbases to acquire air superioity over taiwan.

It doesn't really make sense to say it takes 'more than mainland airbases' and then suggest that 'more' means aircraft carriers. Aircraft carriers are less than mainland airbases, not more. At least as long as your target is close enough.

If the PRC has 5 billion dollars to invest in military spending against Taiwan, it can position 150 fighters in Fujian, or it can position 50 fighters on a carrier. Those 150 fighters in Fujian would be a lot more effective in a battle over Taiwan.

To blockade taiwan, china must also cut off possible western air lanes. subs can't do that, aircraft carrier can.

I'm not convinced it's possible to cut off air access, even with carriers. Bombers have enough range to just go around the carrier.

But I would see value in positioning carriers within range of Guam and other hostile Pacific bases. It will be a while before China can pull off such a strategy though. Of course you have to start somewhere, so that doesn't argue against building carriers today.

... Ami.

[Gollevainen]

As it is apparently unclear how to game is played in here to someone, we shall move to more "clarifying" manner.

If a moderator says that some part of the discussion is going to a wrong direction and orders you guys to shut it down, it means exactly that. Just to make this cristal clear to even to the thickest bricks, let me rephrase the order:

This is a thread about chinese carrier program, a topic to discuss things directly related to that. Invading Taiwan and the various sectors of that attempt aren't directly related to chinese carriers. Yeas like someone said Aircraft carriers could play a important role in that, but sofar the discussion over Taiwan invasion plans are being so generalized that without reading the thread tittle, one could assume that the Taiwan is the actual topic in hand. Taiwan invasion wargames and mindstorms are temporaly forbidden in SDF as they tend to be the fulcrums of all nonsense and ill-mannered postings.

After this I see no Taiwan in this thread and If I see....well lets just hope that I don't see it...

Also as a warning example, dh19440113, concratule yourself for your first official warning. And do hope that it is your last. If you feel that you are somewhat above the rules and have privilegs to determine yourself of where and when you can post what and in what way, please contact Webmaster and he will give you special "supermembership" status which is allowed to do what ever you want.

Thread closed for approx. 24 hours

Gollevainen
Spanish Inqvisition