PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Originally Posted by Engineer

Latest video of Varyag -- no skid marks.

超震撼的航æ¯�进港作业全过程 -çƒ*点视频 在线观看 视频下载-56网视频

Its neat to see her with all that activity on board and she is looking good, a little dissapointed in no air ops, but hey, something to look forward to.

very nice !!!

I recently had an opportunity to talk to folks who had a good look at Varyag before it was put up for sale in Ukraine. That ship was a dumpster fire. She is poorly designed, questionable craftsmanship, and has problems that simply will never be fixed specific to the design. The Indians will figure this out soon...

Bottom line is, what China has been able to do getting the carrier to sea is no small feat, and I do think we will continue to see several sea trials for the vessel because in order to make the vessel sea worthy - a ton of work was necessary and even the best and brightest probably weren't certain they could resolve all the issues of Varyag. Indeed I suspect some issues will never get resolved.

While watching the Chinese get Varyag up and running is interesting, the lessons they are learning that we won't know about until we see an indigenously designed carrier is what is most interesting to me. I do not believe an indigenously designed carrier by China will look like Varyag, because if I was betting on one thing related to ex-Varyag, I would bet that virtually every lesson ex-Varyag is teaching the Chinese right about now is what not to do.

Originally Posted by Galrahn

The Indians will figure this out soon...

Why are you mentioning indians? are you saying that admiral gorskov shares varyag´s problems? If so, its probable, because admiral gorskov is older than varyag.

I think Galrahn raises a good point, sometimes in the excitment people get carried away that somehow China can just leap frog into doing high tempo carrier opps, plus Varyag is not a small carrier, its probably the 2nd largest after USN and mastering the use of a carrier is no easy task, it takes decades of drills after drills to become efficient

ex-Varyag may look like a awesome carrier from the outiside but we really dont know how it looks like on the inside and how well everything is working, its the largest ship China has ever operated and true said that it was just a shell when they got it from Ukraine

making it operational was probably harder than making one from scratch, first and foremost China needs to sail the ship at 100% capacity before they get into landing aircraft on it , I think J15 is ready but ex-Varyag is not

but its easy to think after first flight of J20 that somehow China can just pull off a miracle and shock the world, but sometimes things just come slowly, even then however I still think a landing isnt far away but lets give it time, let them grow, let them walk before they start running and I am sure China knows exactly what it is doing

btw those recent pics show ex-Varyag in total emaculate condition, very nice finish they done with the outiside

Originally Posted by kroko

Why are you mentioning indians? are you saying that admiral gorskov shares varyag´s problems? If so, its probable, because admiral gorskov is older than varyag.

Right. I'm highlighting that Russian carrier architecture left a lot to be desired with their most recent generations like Varyag. I'd hate to think what their older technologies are like. Admiral Gorshov is a modernization of what is really a first generation carrier for the Russians - a helicopter carrier at that.

---------- Post added at 02:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 PM ----------

asif iqbal,

I do not believe we will *ever* see ex-Varyag doing high tempo carrier operations, but then again, I don't believe that is it's purpose. ex-Varyag is essentially, the Chinese version of USS Langley (CV 1), not even the Chinese version of USS Enterprise (CV 6), much less USS Enterprise (CVN 65). It is a first generation model and it is a conversion ship, not a new design.

I would also suggest that the engineering feat of rebuilding an aircraft carrier like ex-Varyag from what amounts to an empty shell - an unwanted hulk of floating steel stuck on a drydock in the Ukraine - into something that at minimum has the capabilities to launch and recover fixed wing aircraft is significantly more impressive than what the final capabilities of ex-Varyag may or may not be. What the Chinese have done is nothing short of fantastic in the context of an engineering demonstration, even if ex-Varyag results in a limited military capability overall.

In many ways I think the entire demonstration over a short period of time raises the question whether China would choose to build 1 or 2 carriers in future 5 year plans. Unlike the United States, they apparently have the capacity, capability, and cost controls necessary to produce more than 1 every 5 years.

Originally Posted by Galrahn

I recently had an opportunity to talk to folks who had a good look at Varyag before it was put up for sale in Ukraine. That ship was a dumpster fire. She is poorly designed, questionable craftsmanship, and has problems that simply will never be fixed specific to the design. The Indians will figure this out soon...

Bottom line is, what China has been able to do getting the carrier to sea is no small feat, and I do think we will continue to see several sea trials for the vessel because in order to make the vessel sea worthy - a ton of work was necessary and even the best and brightest probably weren't certain they could resolve all the issues of Varyag. Indeed I suspect some issues will never get resolved.

While watching the Chinese get Varyag up and running is interesting, the lessons they are learning that we won't know about until we see an indigenously designed carrier is what is most interesting to me. I do not believe an indigenously designed carrier by China will look like Varyag, because if I was betting on one thing related to ex-Varyag, I would bet that virtually every lesson ex-Varyag is teaching the Chinese right about now is what not to do.

The-Chinese-aircraft-carr-007.jpg

Yup! just a fresh reminder on what she looked like when China first bought her... and that's the outside! I imagine the inside is probably worst because a lot of things were probably stripped out by the Ukrainians even before it ever went up for auction. I wouldn't be surprised if the plumbing didn't work well if at all and definitely the entire ship electrical grid needed to be rewired.
I think the PLAN did a fantastic job putting her back together and maker her seaworthy again. In some ways I'm glad the PLAN bought her and make her into the ship she was suppose to be. As bad a shape as she was in she didn't deserve to be scrapped which would;ve been likely scenerio. I'm also glad she didnt turn into a casino!
That was never her fate.This was definitely a good learning curve for them.
I think the knowledge learned in putting her together is incalculable. I'm sure they will put many of the lessons learned fro this project into their own indigenous carrier many here think will be due out later this decade.

Galrahn you maybe right in saying we maybe never see ex-Varyag in high tempo opps and maybe it is mainly for conversion and that is what China will use it for, but you can be forgiven to think otherwise after a quick look at the outfitting

China has done a termendous job, a job which indicates purpose of intent

equipped with

4 x 18 cell FL-3000N
3 x 30mm Type 1030 CIWS (10 barrels each)
2 x 240mm ASW launchers
4 x Decoy/Chaff
3D air search radar
Shipborne AESA

these systems are meant for war, its hard to see how they constitute a coversion or training vessal, if needed ex-Varyag would be used in a hostile enviroment

Originally Posted by asif iqbal

4 x 18 cell FL-3000N
3 x 30mm Type 1030 CIWS (10 barrels each)
2 x 240mm ASW launchers
4 x Decoy/Chaff
3D air search radar
Shipborne AESA

Quite normal self defence and for air ops. You have to train self defence and you need radar for safe training operation.

Originally Posted by Galrahn

I do not believe we will *ever* see ex-Varyag doing high tempo carrier operations, but then again, I don't believe that is it's purpose.

...the engineering feat of rebuilding an aircraft carrier like ex-Varyag from what amounts to an empty shell - an unwanted hulk of floating steel stuck on a drydock in the Ukraine - into something that at minimum has the capabilities to launch and recover fixed wing aircraft is significantly more impressive than what the final capabilities of ex-Varyag may or may not be.

In many ways I think the entire demonstration over a short period of time raises the question whether China would choose to build 1 or 2 carriers in future 5 year plans. Unlike the United States, they apparently have the capacity, capability, and cost controls necessary to produce more than 1 every 5 years.

If the US wanted to, it could produce more than one carrier every five years. It clearly has the technical know how, and it clearly has the financnes to do so if it thought it necessary.

With its current inventory of eleven nuclear carriers, and with the current world situation being what it is, the US believes those eleven are sufficient, in addition to what amounts to 12 more Jeep Carriers in its large, flat-deck Amphibipous assault ships, which are larger than most other nation's carriers. And to prove and punctuate this, the US is currently building CVN-78, the USS Gerald R. Ford, and LHA-6, USS America, simultaneously.

USS Ford, CVN-78 under construction


USS America, LHA-6 under construction


That's two right there. The Ford is a nuclear supercarrier, the America is a Escort/support carrier that will carrier a full wing of Strike Fighers.

As to the future of the Varyag. Of course she will be used for training. There are no Chinese sailors who are yet experienced in carrier operations, and in particularly in flight operations which is the whole purpose of having them.

But, given the way she has been outfitted, we now know what many of her end capabilities are and they are a lot more than to simply launch and recover aircraft alone.

It is clear that she has the armament, sensors, propulsion, and capacity in her hangar and on deck to serve as a fully operational carrier, and as the PLAN gets her people trained, the aircraft built and certified, and as they build more carriers, I expect we will see the ex-Varyag (one day with a pennant number and an actual name) be used in full up PLAN operations and, if necessary, used for combat.

We all hope that never becomes necessary, but she has too much capability, particularly once her personnel and aircraft are all certified and trained to not do so should the crisis ever develop.

This thread is about the PLAN CV program..If your post is missing..it is here..

Aircraft Carriers II

Discuss the rest of the Worlds CVs there.

bd popeye super moderator

Few Fireworks When She Is Home

http://www.56.com/u76/v_Njc5NTY2NTc.html

Originally Posted by A.Man

Few Fireworks When She Is Home

http://www.56.com/u76/v_Njc5NTY2NTc.html

I think the first touch down has conducted...

Well this was posted on a Chinese site saying the reflectors have blast marks. Looks like from that video. I see some shade differences but I have no idea.