PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

It seems long time PLAN CV not going out for trial. Maybe they are preparing for the golden moment which Is the take off and landing test of J-15?

Originally Posted by Lion

It seems long time PLAN CV not going out for trial. Maybe they are preparing for the golden moment which Is the take off and landing test of J-15?

The first trials were probably to see if the ship functioned as a ship. Now we see installation of arrestor wires. So yeah, they may be prepping the ship for some kind of air operations trial

A few years from now (hopefully a few months from now instead), we might see videos/clips of J-15 takeoff and landing at the new training facility (military airport); using the on shore ski ramp(s) and land based (training) arrestor cables (sites).

PS. Is it true that the J-15 prototype(s) have already been tested on-shore ski ramp takeoff?

Originally Posted by Jovian

PS. Is it true that the J-15 prototype(s) have already been tested on-shore ski ramp takeoff?

It is rumored that the first J15 ski jump take off took place in late 2010 at Yanliang, but there is no photographic evidence to support this claim.

Originally Posted by Jovian

A few years from now (hopefully a few months from now instead), we might see videos/clips of J-15 takeoff and landing at the new training facility (military airport); using the on shore ski ramp(s) and land based (training) arrestor cables (sites).

PS. Is it true that the J-15 prototype(s) have already been tested on-shore ski ramp takeoff?

I believe the first landings and take-offs from the Carrier with fixed wing J-15s will occur within the next 3-6 months. These will serve three purposes:

1) Test out the J-15 in actual carrier deck operations.
20 Test out the Carrier's equipment and sensors regarding carrier deck operations.
3) Show the rest of the world that China has entered the carrier club.

Now, these will be preliminary and for test purposes...not for operational purposes. The PLAN only has a few J-15s to this point 5-7 aircraft probably in total. They cannot outfit a wing or even a squadron yet...and half of the ones they have are prototype test bed aircraft.

It will be 12-18 months before true training and large numbers of fixed wing aircraft begin landing on the carrier. But during that time I expect to see occassional testing in growing numbers of aircraft as more are produced. Also, more and more helo operations will take place.

So, while the carrier may in fact be commissioned late this year, she will not be operational in her carrier role with a couple of squadrons of strike aircraft until propably the 2015 time frame at the soonest IMHO.

Around that time, we may also see a second carrier nearing completion...and maybe a third if they build two at one which would be a phenominal undertaing given everything else they are doing.

It is worth noting that there seem to be a carrier version JL9 with tail hooks and all. With all the attention fixated on the J15, there have been relatively little coverage of them.

I have a feeling that the first carrier landing may be done with a JL9 instead of the J15. Even if the first trap is doing with the J15, I would expect much if not most of the initial training to be done with JL9s.

With new pilots doing carrier landing for the first time, you are bound to get some pretty heavy landings and maybe even a few write-offs.

Since the PLAAF have been operating flankers for nearly two decades now, I would expect them to be drawing their new carrier pilots from existing Flanker pilots to facilitate conversion, so the biggest difficulty is going to be the landings, which the JL9s would be very good to break the pilots in without risk breaking expensive J15s.

I would expect full scale training to take place with JL9s maybe as early as 2013 or even the end of this year, with the few J15s already built reserved for conversion training and final certification etc. This way, when SAC does finish building a full J15 regiment or two, there would be qualified pilots to put them to use straight away.

Obviously they would still be fresh and green at carrier ops, but they would be able to move straight onto the advanced stuff and start building up experience operating off of carriers, and be theoretically ready for deployment soon afterwards.

Originally Posted by plawolf

It is worth noting that there seem to be a carrier version JL9 with tail hooks and all. With all the attention fixated on the J15, there have been relatively little coverage of them.

I have a feeling that the first carrier landing may be done with a JL9 instead of the J15. Even if the first trap is doing with the J15, I would expect much if not most of the initial training to be done with JL9s.

With new pilots doing carrier landing for the first time, you are bound to get some pretty heavy landings and maybe even a few write-offs.

Since the PLAAF have been operating flankers for nearly two decades now, I would expect them to be drawing their new carrier pilots from existing Flanker pilots to facilitate conversion, so the biggest difficulty is going to be the landings, which the JL9s would be very good to break the pilots in without risk breaking expensive J15s.

I would expect full scale training to take place with JL9s maybe as early as 2013 or even the end of this year, with the few J15s already built reserved for conversion training and final certification etc. This way, when SAC does finish building a full J15 regiment or two, there would be qualified pilots to put them to use straight away.

Obviously they would still be fresh and green at carrier ops, but they would be able to move straight onto the advanced stuff and start building up experience operating off of carriers, and be theoretically ready for deployment soon afterwards.

Very good points, my friend, and I agree with them.

They can make the trainer conversions faster than the J-15s and believe as soon as they have enough that that training will begin in ernest before large numbers of J-15s are available anyway.

So, I still expect some test traps and launches from the J-15s so they can be tested and qualified for it before full production...but the main operational training will begin, I believe, as you have described.

Now I wish I had a few JL9s to put on my new 1/350 scale Chinese Carrier model. They could serve as trainers...and ultimately if they are like several US trainers, could even be combat capable for light attack and the like.

Originally Posted by plawolf

It is worth noting that there seem to be a carrier version JL9 with tail hooks and all. With all the attention fixated on the J15, there have been relatively little coverage of them.

I have a feeling that the first carrier landing may be done with a JL9 instead of the J15. Even if the first trap is doing with the J15, I would expect much if not most of the initial training to be done with JL9s.

With new pilots doing carrier landing for the first time, you are bound to get some pretty heavy landings and maybe even a few write-offs.

Since the PLAAF have been operating flankers for nearly two decades now, I would expect them to be drawing their new carrier pilots from existing Flanker pilots to facilitate conversion, so the biggest difficulty is going to be the landings, which the JL9s would be very good to break the pilots in without risk breaking expensive J15s.

I would expect full scale training to take place with JL9s maybe as early as 2013 or even the end of this year, with the few J15s already built reserved for conversion training and final certification etc. This way, when SAC does finish building a full J15 regiment or two, there would be qualified pilots to put them to use straight away.

Obviously they would still be fresh and green at carrier ops, but they would be able to move straight onto the advanced stuff and start building up experience operating off of carriers, and be theoretically ready for deployment soon afterwards.

I doubt JL-9 will involved in real PLAN CV training, not to mention the 1st landing... Maybe the land simulator. PLAN never trust a single engine to go for CV.. They always go for the safer and proven method of 2 engines J-15.

Originally Posted by Lion

I doubt JL-9 will involved in real PLAN CV training, not to mention the 1st landing... Maybe the land simulator. PLAN never trust a single engine to go for CV.. They always go for the safer and proven method of 2 engines J-15.

Well that echoes my real concerns with the F-35 for the USN Lion, but the lighter smaller aircraft would be much safer for a student and instructor, my only real question is how will the JL-9 do off the ramp? I believe they will use it extensively in training if for no other reason than to protect the J-15s from the wear and tear of training ops, so wolfie could be on the right track. If the plan sticks to their near shore ops statement, the JL-9 might not be quite as risky as we think. I still think the cautious slow approach is better in the long run than risking limited assets in the initial phase as they write the book so to speak, for their carrier doctrine IMHO?

What was the first aircraft the russians used for carrier arrested landings?

May be, it is less dangerous to operate first with a powerfull but lightwight J-15. I think, in the first year only experienced pilots get the opportunity to land on and take off from exVaryag.

Originally Posted by Lion

I doubt JL-9 will involved in real PLAN CV training, not to mention the 1st landing... Maybe the land simulator. PLAN never trust a single engine to go for CV.. They always go for the safer and proven method of 2 engines J-15.

The Super Etendart, A4, Harrier and F35 are all single engined, and with the exception of the last, all have had perfectly fine service history on carriers, and there is every indication that the F35 will do just fine as well.

Just because the USN prefers twin engines does not by any stretch of the imagination make single engined fighters anywhere close to as unsafe as you seem to think.

The USN itself uses the T45 Goshawk - a single engined trainer, for carrier conversion training.

The fact that they bothered to put a tailhook on the JL9 proves that they intend to do carrier training with it.

Originally Posted by Air Force Brat

Well that echoes my real concerns with the F-35 for the USN Lion, but the lighter smaller aircraft would be much safer for a student and instructor

But we can list a whole slew of aircraft that did fine with a single engine...for many, many years. the F-8 crusader in US and French service for decades. The A-7 Corsair II in US Navy, Air Force, and other nation's service for many many years. The A-4 for Heaven's sake...still being used by the Brazilians. Our own trainer, the T-45 as well...when talking about training. All are/were single engine aircraft and performed very well in the combat role as well as the training role.

I believe the JL-9 could do the same for the PLAN...we'll just have to wait and see if they choose that aircraft for their carrier training. They cetrtainly could have more of them ready more quickly than they will have a full squadron of J-15s and thus get a jump start on aircraft carrier air ops training.

Originally Posted by plawolf

The Super Etendart, A4, Harrier and F35 are all single engined, and with the exception of the last, all have had perfectly fine service history on carriers, and there is every indication that the F35 will do just fine as well.

Just because the USN prefers twin engines does not by any stretch of the imagination make single engined fighters anywhere close to as unsafe as you seem to think.

The USN itself uses the T45 Goshawk - a single engined trainer, for carrier conversion training.

The fact that they bothered to put a tailhook on the JL9 proves that they intend to do carrier training with it.

I would concur completely wolfie, although I feel similarly to Lion when thinking about night overwater a long way from home, "while one will do, its best to have two". How bout that guys, I'm a poet and didn't know it. Sorry guys, I better get back to work and look busy, bossette is coming home any minute and if she catches me on here with you guys, well I'm not to worried, I buried her big cast iron skillet in the garden.

Originally Posted by Air Force Brat

I would concur completely wolfie, although I feel similarly to Lion when thinking about night overwater a long way from home, "while one will do, its best to have two". How bout that guys, I'm a poet and didn't know it. Sorry guys, I better get back to work and look busy, bossette is coming home any minute and if she catches me on here with you guys, well I'm not to worried, I buried her big cast iron skillet in the garden.

LOL! I bet she knows where it is...or has another hidden away!

BTW, my Dad, who was a combat naval officer in the PTO in WW II, came home and finished his bachelors in mechanical engineering and went on and got his Masters and finished everything for the PHD except for the final thesis. He worked 48 years at LTV in Grand Prairie Texas before passing away in 2004.

He was the lead structural and dynqamics engineer on both the F-8 Crusader and the A-7 Corsair. In fact, when I got out of school, one of my first jobs was working at Vought as an entry level designer on the A-7 (He got all four of his sons, who all went into engineering, through friends and contacts he had there, great interviews for each of us and we all got our first jobs at LTV when we got out of school...sort of like a right of passage). At that time the US A-7E was winding down, the sale to Portugal was going on and I did a lot of work on that version, the A-7P. Later worked on the MLRS system by Vought before moving on. I had a lot of pride when I saw those things cooking off in Gulf War I, Desert Storm, taking out the Iraqi bunker and armor formations as our guys crossed the line.