PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Does anyone have any idea of the cost of the Varyag programme to date?

Originally Posted by asif iqbal

but would China make a "training carrier" with 4 x FL-2000N , custom made 10 barrel 3 x Type 1030 CIWS, 2 x ASW launchers, 4 x decoy shafts and a ASEA 3D search Radar, its pretty clear this ship is for war if needed and carry many aircraft more makes sense

surely China would have known what its doing with this ship, they would have optimised it for carriers opps and aircraft for thier own needs, it came as a empty shell and China has built it bottom up, so i dont see how it can losee its combat information rooms

this is Chinas project, they could do almost anything they want with it and I am sure they have foresight to design it so it can handle more aircraft that originally planned as China has shown clear intent for carrier, not carrier+ missiles like Soviets

also isnt Russia doing the same with the Kuznetsov upgrade programme? they plan to increase hanger space also for more aircraft, so i highly doubt theres any reason to think China hasnt done the same

Whether they extend the hangar or not has nothing to do with whether it's a training carrier or not (which no one else broughtup).

While we can imagine the chinese will have tried to extend the hangar more to their needs, I find it difficult to believe they would extend the hangar all the way to the end of the shipwreck missile silos. I'm not aware of exactly what the rooms between the hangar and the silos are for, but I'm not sure if the ship's structure can withstand changes of that magnitude. Of course they've been at work for it for so long it might be possible, but I wouldn't put money on it.

Could someone who reads Russian please translate the internal layout diagram asif iqbal posted? Thanks.

Originally Posted by Intrepid

[OT]As head of training of a flight training organisation I flew lighttype single and twin engine aircraft and Beech King Air. In my off time I flew Antonov AN-2 for sightseeing flights and one time in my life 14 days on AN-24 and L-39 in russia. I am retired since end of 2010 after 10000 hours and 30000 landings, but have still my ratings and fly as privat pilot. I gain inside knowledge of military aviation, because we had a lot of transition training for military pilots to become airline transport pilots.[/OT]

Thanks for sharing that with us, I have a little right seat time in a Mitsubishi Marquise, I must say some of the most terrifying moments were in those few hours. They were all at night, the only time I was ever in ice, or that close to a real thunderstorm, yes the old man made a big impression about thunderstorms. It was a gorgeous, very capable aircraft, but like Mata Hari, she had her deadly side. One of my buddies flies a King Air, the short one for the state of Illinois, and just loves it, has an all glass cockpit and all the toys. I was offered an off the cuff ride in a Mig-21 two holer from the guys a Red Air, more of a come on up when we're flying it and we'll give you a ride. The same guys had two Mig 29s that weren't airworthy yet, but they flew Natasha in Dec 2010 at Quincy Illinois, that I'd like, the 21, I thought NAH! Glad to see you're still flying, I miss it a lot, my brother and I have talked about buying a luscombe or other old taildragger to fly light sport.

Originally Posted by franco-russe

You cannot just extend the hangar all the way to the missile silos. If you go back a lot of posts, you will see that they would lose the combat information centres in the process.

FWIW, rumor says CIC was moved into the space the silos formerly took up.

Originally Posted by Bltizo

Whether they extend the hangar or not has nothing to do with whether it's a training carrier or not (which no one else broughtup).

While we can imagine the chinese will have tried to extend the hangar more to their needs, I find it difficult to believe they would extend the hangar all the way to the end of the shipwreck missile silos. I'm not aware of exactly what the rooms between the hangar and the silos are for, but I'm not sure if the ship's structure can withstand changes of that magnitude. Of course they've been at work for it for so long it might be possible, but I wouldn't put money on it.

Original hanger was 4498 sq meters, enough for 18 su-33. Missile silo was removed, and CIC was moved in. Modern electronics reduce the space needed for CIC while allow more space for the operators. Crew quarters and dining hall are moved into where the old CIC was, and the old crew quarter and dining hall was removed, for 1000 sq meters more hanger space. The new hanger is able to handle up to 22 J-15.

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Originally Posted by bd popeye

^^^ you cannot cram that many aircraft in an hangar deck. It is not safe. I've mentioned this before. You need a fire lane. That fire lane is also used to move large object easily from one end of the ship to the other. You need wiggle room to move aircraft from the hangar deck to the flight deck and vice versa as they need repair and are repaired.

You're absolutely right bd, when we pulled an aircraft that we had been working on, out of the back of the big hanger, that was a lot of jockeying a half a dozen or more airplanes in and out and putting them back where we had space to actually work on them. Invariably wings and wing tips get dinged if you are not extremly carefull.

Originally Posted by Bltizo

Whether they extend the hangar or not has nothing to do with whether it's a training carrier or not (which no one else broughtup).

While we can imagine the chinese will have tried to extend the hangar more to their needs, I find it difficult to believe they would extend the hangar all the way to the end of the shipwreck missile silos. I'm not aware of exactly what the rooms between the hangar and the silos are for, but I'm not sure if the ship's structure can withstand changes of that magnitude. Of course they've been at work for it for so long it might be possible, but I wouldn't put money on it.

by training carrier i mean it makes more sense for a operational combat carrier to have as many fighters on it as possible, which this does

personally i believe China has certainly done internal work, extending the hanger and removing the missiles,i dont see how this would dramaticaly effect the structure, there is no evidence to suggest otherwise, and also makes sense, since Russia is also doing it under its upgrade programme, Russian carriers were not designed like US carriers to have deck full of aircraft, they were designed for carrier aircraft and missiles

China however is not following the Russian doctrine, they are clearly going for a true carrier with max aircraft, either way Varyag can carry 40+ J15, thats my belief until someone proves otherwise

on deck 6+4+5 + below deck 25= 40, pushing it, 6+6+5+ below deck 28=45, either way 40+

Originally Posted by asif iqbal

by training carrier i mean it makes more sense for a operational combat carrier to have as many fighters on it as possible, which this does

personally i believe China has certainly done internal work, extending the hanger and removing the missiles,i dont see how this would dramaticaly effect the structure, there is no evidence to suggest otherwise, and also makes sense, since Russia is also doing it under its upgrade programme, Russian carriers were not designed like US carriers to have deck full of aircraft, they were designed for carrier aircraft and missiles

China however is not following the Russian doctrine, they are clearly going for a true carrier with max aircraft, either way Varyag can carry 40+ J15, thats my belief until someone proves otherwise

on deck 6+4+5 + below deck 25= 40, pushing it, 6+6+5+ below deck 28=45, either way 40+

What about some space for those K-31s in charge of ASW and AEW?

Originally Posted by asif iqbal

by training carrier i mean it makes more sense for a operational combat carrier to have as many fighters on it as possible, which this does

personally i believe China has certainly done internal work, extending the hanger and removing the missiles,i dont see how this would dramaticaly effect the structure, there is no evidence to suggest otherwise, and also makes sense, since Russia is also doing it under its upgrade programme, Russian carriers were not designed like US carriers to have deck full of aircraft, they were designed for carrier aircraft and missiles

Removing the missile silos should be an issue, but extending the hangar all the way to the silos seems a stretch to me.

If the russians are extending kuznetsov's hangar in that fashion then I could consider it a possibility with the varyag.

Originally Posted by Bltizo

Removing the missile silos should be an issue, but extending the hangar all the way to the silos seems a stretch to me.

If the russians are extending kuznetsov's hangar in that fashion then I could consider it a possibility with the varyag.

That'd very much depend on how much a structural modification it'd be, though my hunch tells me it'd be nonetheless extensive.

Originally Posted by asif iqbal

but would China make a "training carrier" with 4 x FL-2000N , custom made 10 barrel 3 x Type 1030 CIWS, 2 x ASW launchers, 4 x decoy shafts and a ASEA 3D search Radar, its pretty clear this ship is for war if needed and carry many aircraft more makes sense

It makes more sense for a operational combat carrier to have as many fighters on it as possible and remove all this weapons. A training carrier may have weapons instead of parked aircraft arround the deck.

Originally Posted by nemo

Original hanger was 4498 sq meters, enough for 18 su-33. Missile silo was removed, and CIC was moved in. Modern electronics reduce the space needed for CIC while allow more space for the operators. Crew quarters and dining hall are moved into where the old CIC was, and the old crew quarter and dining hall was removed, for 1000 sq meters more hanger space. The new hanger is able to handle up to 22 J-15.

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What is CIC and what missiles Varyag suppose to carry ?

Originally Posted by antiterror13

What is CIC and what missiles Varyag suppose to carry ?

CIC: Combat Information Center
Designed to carry P-700 Granit (SS-N-19 Shipwreck) anti-ship missiles.