PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Originally Posted by Hendrik_2000

The best ASW is another submarine and China has plenty of it

The very best ASW is another sub.. China has the quantity but nothing the quality of an LA Class SSN..

Originally Posted by kroko

As far as i can see, the ship still hasnt move in this pictures. Its in the same spot. One photo has higher resolution than the other

The first picture shows two tugboats. The second picture shows four tugboats. The two pictures are not the same.


At 2:30 AM, on August 10 2011, tugboats surround the Shi Lang.


At 3:10 AM, on August 10 2011, tugboats start towing the Shi Lang out to sea.

But the point is, conventional subs are much cheaper and quicker to build doesn't matter which country is producing it. On top of that, American union workers are paid much higher and often, let's be honest, much more "spoiled" than the "semi-slaved" Chinese labours. At the end, the Chinese could repeat what the Americans have done in WWII by pumping out countless subs, while the Americans are still spending billions and years to build just a few state of the art Sea Wolfs.

Did the carrier return to port yet?

Originally Posted by bd popeye

The very best ASW is another sub.. China has the quantity but nothing the quality of an LA Class SSN..

Yip, and experience is going to be another telling feature, even when they eventually produce something that's comparable.

IMO its been bit of an anticlimax really. I cant wait to see a video of her surging through the South China Seas with a decent bow wave.

On a side note:

Cottage, are you that kid? very charming have to admit, especially in the middle of a Chinese defence forum. Say, daddy must have been very proud when he took the foto, eh?

Originally Posted by CottageLV

But the point is, conventional subs are much cheaper and quicker to build doesn't matter which country is producing it. On top of that, American union workers are paid much higher and often, let's be honest, much more "spoiled" than the "semi-slaved" Chinese labours. At the end, the Chinese could repeat what the Americans have done in WWII by pumping out countless subs, while the Americans are still spending billions and years to build just a few state of the art Sea Wolfs.

The problem with the diesel subs is that they are not fast enough to keep up with the carrier battle group. They are good for blocking operations in litoral waters, or choke points...but not good for escort duties of a carrier battle group.

The PLAN is building more of the Type 093 SSNs (and maybe the follow on by now). IMHO, she will use those to escort her carriers. I believe the PLAN has probably 4-6 nuclear attack subs operational now...maybe more. Using one of those per carrier battle group will allow for the best protection. The problem is, getting those boats up to a capability where they can take ona US Sea Wolf or Virginia class...or one of the newer British of French boats. They are not there.

But their SSNs are better than having no sub...and they are improving all of the time.

Originally Posted by asif iqbal

I think Shi Lang has been extensively modifed internally to carry more aircraft, heres some info from PDF claiming that hanger area is >5000 sqaure metres

The New Hangar extends all the way to the Missile Silos.

So its seems that maximum J15 Shi Lang can take is more than 40!

So, asif, what are those dimensions you are claiming? 183 m by 29 m?

Originally Posted by lcloo

I believe this picture answered your question.

I think he is wondering if you had the wings folded, and two aircraft next to each other pointed in opposite directions, then would they fit. I am not sure, but think even then it would still be too wide...but I will check.

I have never seen a Kuznetrsov picture with two SU-33s on one elevator.

Originally Posted by bd popeye

The very best ASW is another sub.. China has the quantity but nothing the quality of an LA Class SSN..

Actually I think the 093 class is widely considered to be the 688's peer? Plan has nothing like seawolf or Virginia though (fingers crossed for 095)

Originally Posted by bladerunner

Yip, and experience is going to be another telling feature, even when they eventually produce something that's comparable.

IMO its been bit of an anticlimax really. I cant wait to see a video of her surging through the South China Seas with a decent bow wave.

Haha-- it was always going to be an anti climax

Originally Posted by bladerunner

Yip, and experience is going to be another telling feature, even when they eventually produce something that's comparable.

IMO its been bit of an anticlimax really. I cant wait to see a video of her surging through the South China Seas with a decent bow wave.

That is what they say at the onset of battle of Kursk German Panther can overwhelm cheap Russian T-34 Yet at the end who win ?

Quantity has a weight of its own in any battle or naval engagement

To anyone who question Chinese Sub training, they should recall the 2006 incident when Chinese sub surface within firing distance of US Carrier

Chinese Submarine Stalks US Carrier

And that is using an old Song Sub and in the mean time China has gone thru 2 generations of Sub :Yuan and Qing

Originally Posted by Martian

The first picture shows two tugboats. The second picture shows four tugboats. The two pictures are not the same.

At 2:30 AM, on August 10 2011, tugboats surround the Shi Lang.

At 3:10 AM, on August 10 2011, tugboats start towing the Shi Lang out to sea.

I think that you didnt understand me well. Yes, the pictures arent the same. However varyag is still in the same spot, in the dock. In these 2 pictures, it still hadnt moved one bit out of its docking spot

Originally Posted by Jeff Head

The problem is, getting those boats up to a capability where they can take ona US Sea Wolf or Virginia class...or one of the newer British of French boats. They are not there.

Not to mention russia´s severodvinsk class. type 093 simply isnt in the league of modern SSN.

SSN, and ASW in general, are the most important weak points in PLAN capabilities.

Type 095 is years from service, and according to a 2009 USN, possibly it will be louder than 80´s Akula I SSN. Some people say that this report has errors. But having some errors doesnt invalidate the entire report. But, its up to anyone to believe it or not.

IMO, the problem is that unlike planes, SSK, missiles, etc, china doesnt have acess to a modern foreign made platform to which to reverse-engineer in order to propel its technology to modern levels. No nation will sell SSN to china.

Not to mention russia´s severodvinsk class. type 093 simply isnt in the league of modern SSN.

SSN, and ASW in general, are the most important weak points in PLAN capabilities.

Type 095 is years from service, and according to a 2009 USN, possibly it will be louder than 80´s Akula I SSN. Some people say that this report has errors. But having some errors doesnt invalidate the entire report. But, its up to anyone to believe it or not.

IMO, the problem is that unlike planes, SSK, missiles, etc, china doesnt have acess to a modern foreign made platform to which to reverse-engineer in order to propel its technology to modern levels. No nation will sell SSN to china.

How can they evaluate the noise level of type 95 Sub when the submarine is not built yet. Unless ONI has clairvoyant like 6th perception. Kroko as always you underestimate China ability . Have you heard such thing as research and development ?

Today China produce more engineers and PhD than any other country in the world and they are cheap. The billion that they pumped into R&D will eventually show result

Originally Posted by Bltizo

Actually I think the 093 class is widely considered to be the 688's peer? Plan has nothing like seawolf or Virginia though (fingers crossed for 095)

There are some differences between the early 093s and later 093s,
each boat/pair should be a subblock of its own.

as to 688's peer.
one should understand that as far as investments in acoustic data in west pac, prob only china approachs US.

On numerous occasions when the PLA had open houses for the media and foreign militaries, their officers have quoted on numerous occasions "Even though our fighters or ships are not as advance as western forces, make no mistakes we will find a way to defeat you !"

Diesel subs are much more quiet than SSNs, cheaper to produce and to operate and deadly carrier stalkers as defensive measures as demonstrated in the 2007 US battle group encounter !

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...red-faced.html