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J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread

This is a discussion on J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread within the Navy forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; I do not know if there is a seperate thread for this or not, but thought there certainly should be ...

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    Jeff Head's Avatar
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    PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

    I do not know if there is a seperate thread for this or not, but thought there certainly should be one because of the difference this aircraft will make in the Western Pacific. Next to the United States, France, and Russia, there is no strong and vary capable strike fighter available ofr carrier operations in any other Navy. Later, once the VTOL F-35B becomes available, that may be questioned.

    This thread is about the J-15 Flying Shark, the Chinese indegenous remake of the Russian SU-33. By all accounts, the aircraft is significantly upgraded and will add a very strong capability to the PLAN as they launch their carriers. Particularly when they set up buddy stores to begin with for the ex-Varyag, and then later as they use catapault launches where they can get more weapons and fuel for these aircraft.

    Please post specifications, details, pictures, etc.

    Here are some initial photos to start the thread:























    The aircraft has moved from the prototype painting scheme to PLAN colors in these photos.

    The next two photos are renderings of what the J-15 will look like. Once flying and photgraphed in actuality, those photos will be placed here.



    Last edited by Jeff Head; 05-30-2011 at 05:09 PM.
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    Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

    The aircraft has moved from the prototype painting scheme to PLAN colors in these photos.
    Be carefull ... the last two ones are only CG's and not real photographs !

    Deino
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    Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

    Quote Originally Posted by Deino View Post
    Be carefull ... the last two ones are only CG's and not real photographs !

    Deino
    Yes...I fixed it in the explanation. Once we have actual photos, we can place them here and I will place them in place of those two. Thanks!
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    Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

    Quote Originally Posted by Deino View Post
    Be carefull ... the last two ones are only CG's and not real photographs !

    Deino
    Gaoshan's skills have improved since the famous J-XX photos. It is really difficult telling them apart from real planes. It is a shame that Chinese film makers couldn't hire him to do the CGIs.
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    Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

    To call J-15 as strike fighter could be a bit of stretch I afraid. While yes they could've integrated such capability onto the platform but given the fact that carrier takeoff is ski-jump method, it'd restrict its payload significantly, thus to conduct strike it'd have to launch from land...that'd leave its carrier-op primarily air defense role.

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    ¦^ÂÐ: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

    any pics of folded wings, i still havnt seen any?

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    Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

    We've seen the j-15 model on the wuhan training platform holding yj-82 or kd-88 missiles, and I imagine it wouldn't be a massive stretch for it to carry some smaller LT, ft, or LS series pgm's with a reasonable amount of range from ski jump.
    CARRIER HAS ARRIVED! ^^

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    Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

    Quote Originally Posted by MwRYum View Post
    To call J-15 as strike fighter could be a bit of stretch I afraid. While yes they could've integrated such capability onto the platform but given the fact that carrier takeoff is ski-jump method, it'd restrict its payload significantly, thus to conduct strike it'd have to launch from land...that'd leave its carrier-op primarily air defense role.
    Well this assumption is based on the fact that the J-15 will only be used to equipped the Varyag. From what I've been able to gather Varyag will primarily be used as a training vessel for future Chinese carriers. We all know that China has been working on catapults so the ski-jump method may not be used on domestic aircraft carriers. It would be a bit of a pity not to utilize the large flanker as a strike aircraft.

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    Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

    I would not put the Rafale or the Su-33 ahead of the J-15.

    The J-15, apart from its airframe and landing gear, is pretty much not related to the Su-33. Its avionics, FBW controls, weapons packages are completely new and represent the next-generation of naval fighter aircraft. Its avionics are believed to be based on the J-11B's avionics, but newer. The engines are also more powerful than the Al-31. Being equipped with these engines, the J-15 would have a higher T/W ratio than the Rafale/Su-33 and thus possess a maneuverability and speed advantage. The supposedly modified airframe and its next generation avionics also should give it a low observability advantage when compared to the Rafale, let alone the Su-33.

    Chinese military officials stated that the J-15 and J-11B incorporates a newly developed AESA radar and may incorporate thrust vectoring in the future.

    Chinese military officials also said that the J-15 is at least on the same level as the Rafale-M and the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet in terms of performance. The Su-33 does not even come into the equation.





    But again, I do not think the J-15 is the best work. It clearly is based off a Cold War airframe and is far from competing against near future American carrier based aircraft. That is I think why the PLANAF is also building the reported stealthy carrier based fighter (J-18?).
    Last edited by SinoSoldier; 05-30-2011 at 06:57 PM.

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    Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

    Quote Originally Posted by MwRYum View Post
    To call J-15 as strike fighter could be a bit of stretch I afraid. While yes they could've integrated such capability onto the platform but given the fact that carrier takeoff is ski-jump method, it'd restrict its payload significantly, thus to conduct strike it'd have to launch from land...that'd leave its carrier-op primarily air defense role.
    With a buddy store capability for inflight fueling, the J-15 could take off with minimal fuel and a heavier weapons load and then fill up after takeoff. That's one way to help do more than air defense only off of the Varyag. Also, these aircraft will also be used for later carriers that could be CATOBAR.

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    Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Head View Post
    With a buddy store capability for inflight fueling, the J-15 could take off with minimal fuel and a heavier weapons load and then fill up after takeoff. That's one way to help do more than air defense only off of the Varyag. Also, these aircraft will also be used for later carriers that could be CATOBAR.
    That'd take at least one jet off the pack for the strike package, consider the capacity of the Varyag that's not a good news by all means.

    Only alternative would be "real" aerial tankers to operate with the carrier group - so long the operation stay within the 1st Island Chain it'd be fine - and it shouldn't be a problem since China won't be going further than that for the time being. Yet there's another problem: would H-6U tanker capacity up to the job for heavy fighters like the J-15? If it can't refuel more than 3 fighters in a sortie it'd be unpractical and uneconomical.

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    Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

    Quote Originally Posted by SinoSoldier View Post
    I would not put the Rafale or the Su-33 ahead of the J-15.

    The J-15, apart from its airframe and landing gear, is pretty much not related to the Su-33. Its avionics, FBW controls, weapons packages are completely new and represent the next-generation of naval fighter aircraft. Its avionics are believed to be based on the J-11B's avionics, but newer. The engines are also more powerful than the Al-31. Being equipped with these engines, the J-15 would have a higher T/W ratio than the Rafale/Su-33 and thus possess a maneuverability and speed advantage. The supposedly modified airframe and its next generation avionics also should give it a low observability advantage when compared to the Rafale, let alone the Su-33.

    Chinese military officials stated that the J-15 and J-11B incorporates a newly developed AESA radar and may incorporate thrust vectoring in the future.

    Chinese military officials also said that the J-15 is at least on the same level as the Rafale-M and the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet in terms of performance. The Su-33 does not even come into the equation.





    But again, I do not think the J-15 is the best work. It clearly is based off a Cold War airframe and is far from competing against near future American carrier based aircraft. That is I think why the PLANAF is also building the reported stealthy carrier based fighter (J-18?).
    I don't think the J-15 is on par with the F-18E. It is much better than the Su-33 though. I doubt that the engines, avionics, radar signature reductions (if there are any) on the J-15 are near F-18E level. I would hold off on that until we know more.

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    Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

    Point of inquiry: the Su-33's maneuverability is <F-18E and Rafale?! I thought the Su-33 is quite equivalent of the Su-30MKI and the likes in terms of combat flight performance, excluding hardware and avionics.
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    Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

    Quote Originally Posted by MwRYum View Post
    That'd take at least one jet off the pack for the strike package, consider the capacity of the Varyag that's not a good news by all means.

    Only alternative would be "real" aerial tankers to operate with the carrier group - so long the operation stay within the 1st Island Chain it'd be fine - and it shouldn't be a problem since China won't be going further than that for the time being. Yet there's another problem: would H-6U tanker capacity up to the job for heavy fighters like the J-15? If it can't refuel more than 3 fighters in a sortie it'd be unpractical and uneconomical.
    Your entire point is that the J15 shouldn't be designed as a strike fighter because of the Varyag's limitations on its take off load. But that is completely ignoring the very strong evidence and compelling rationale for the PLAN to build more indigenously designed carriers, which would almost certainly be CATOBAR (thus removing the weight issue), and the fact that those new built carriers would likely fulfill the main combat missions of PLAN carriers if it ever came to that.

    It would be silly and unheard off to deliberately limit a fighter because of a current platform when you are almost certain that the same aircraft will be used on future vessels with no such restrictions.

    What more, if China ever develops another carrier based fighter, be it a naval J10 or an all new stealth design, it will almost certainly be superior to the J15 in AA combat, thus the main advantage the J15 would have over such a fighter would be superior range and payload capabilities, which lends itself perfectly to the strike role.

    Thus it is extremely likely that the J15 would spend much of its service life in the PLAN as the primary carrier strike fighter, so not developing a strike capability is pretty silly as that would significantly hurt the continued service of the type on PLAN carriers if another carrier fighter is ever developed.

    If another carrier fighter is not developed, the J15 would need to carry out strike missions anyways, so there is no plausible reason to limit them like this no matter what happens in the future.
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    Re: PLAN's first Carrier Strike Fighter the J-15 Flying shark

    Quote Originally Posted by airsuperiority View Post
    Point of inquiry: the Su-33's maneuverability is <F-18E and Rafale?! I thought the Su-33 is quite equivalent of the Su-30MKI and the likes in terms of combat flight performance, excluding hardware and avionics.
    AFAIK su-33 hasnt been upgraded since soviet era

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