Ideal chinese carrier thread

[bd popeye]

Good Idea. Scratch

A few things..Why is the hangar so high? It is a good thing though that means larger aircraft can be accomdated in the future.

I think the VLS on the flight deck is a mistake. It would intefere with the flight deck air operations...Smoke debris ETC...It could be placed on a sponson at hangar deck level.

Also the placement of CIC in the island is a bad idea. Generally CIC on a CV is right underneath the flight deck. The island is very vurnable during combat. Knock out that island with CIC in there and you ship is rendered useless.

Is that an aircraft elevator on the port side of the bow? That is an unuasl placement. Any particular reason it's there? The Bow is generally the first place aircraft are spotted (parked) after recovery. That elevator would use up deck space.

As a reminder to everyone drawing a CV. The deck right under all CV's flight deck(dark red on this pic) no matter who builds them is full of crew compartments and workshops and offices. Also Squadron ready rooms. That's where pilots prepare for flight operations.

That is a very good first effort.

I wish I had a program to draw a CV ...someone give me a link to draw ships..please!!!!..These crayon I have ain't cuttin' it!

[Scratch]

Good Idea. Scratch

Wow, that from a CV vet, I'm impressed of myself

Now, the hanger hight. I remember a point in the ideal cruiser topic were you mentioned the importance of the hanger hight for maintanance work. I was not sure how hight it actually should be, though I saw that other carriers hangers are not that high. Now I think no aircraft on that CV will be higher then perhaps 6m. So 8-9m hight should also do it. It's mainly because of AEW plains in case the radar dome has to be taken off.

I'll have to look were else I could fit that sponson, or if I drop the VLS completely and rely on escorts and the improved HQ-7 and type 730 CIWSs.

I'll place the CIC under the deck. It's just I looked at the "Admiral Kuznetsov" a bit for inspiration and I think its island is huge, wonder what's in there. I have no idea what the interior of a warship looks like. But now I'm suprised that there is actually a deck level under the flight deck and above the hanger...?
That dark red wasn't intended as a deck level but a really thick "bottom" of the flight deck with several installations (Cat etc.)

Well that thing on the port bow is an elevator, a little smaller then the big ones, but still suited for fighters. I put it there to take fighters to the hanger immediatly after landing, since they'll stop there anyway. Is there work being done on those planes still on the flight deck after recovery?

Oh, and I draw/drew(?) did draw ( ) that CV with MS paint, and to give some credit to myself I counted single pixels.
3 pixels were one meter.

[bd popeye]

Wow, that from a CV vet, I'm impressed of myself

I consider that comment as a thank you!..You are welcome.

Now, the hanger hight. I remember a point in the ideal cruiser topic were you mentioned the importance of the hanger hight for maintanance work. I was not sure how hight it actually should be, though I saw that other carriers hangers are not that high. Now I think no aircraft on that CV will be higher then perhaps 6m. So 8-9m hight should also do it. It's mainly because of AEW plains in case the radar dome has to be taken off.

The hangar height on a all active USN CV(N)'s is 7.6m(25ft). Oh by the way in seven deployments I never saw the radome come off a E-2C. But it could happen with a shorter height.

Well that thing on the port bow is an elevator, a little smaller then the big ones, but still suited for fighters. I put it there to take fighters to the hanger immediatly after landing, since they'll stop there anyway. Is there work being done on those planes still on the flight deck after recovery?

The main thing done to aircraft when they return to a CV is re-arm and re-fuel. This is almost always done on the bow of the flight deck. However sometimes when a plane lands it needs work to the point it can't be sent out on the next launch. So then it is sent to the hangar if need be. But not always because sometimes repairs can be done on the flight deck.. I hope I'm not confusing you. There are other factors in where to spot an aircraft after it "traps"(lands") on the CV. I won't go into those.

I'll place the CIC under the deck. It's just I looked at the "Admiral Kuznetsov" a bit for inspiration and I think its island is huge, wonder what's in there. I have no idea what the interior of a warship looks like. But now I'm suprised that there is actually a deck level under the flight deck and above the hanger...?
That dark red wasn't intended as a deck level but a really thick "bottom" of the flight deck with several installations (Cat etc.)

On all USN CV(N)'s the flight deck is armoured it is about 8.8mm(3.5in) thick.

The below link will give you a cutaway view of soon to be built CVN-78. While the drawing is not complete it will give you gentlemen a good idea. I did not post the picture because it's too big.

http://www.nn.northropgrumman.com/cv...3-42-2_new.jpg

One thing all of us remember is that this is a PLAN CV. Not USN,FN or RN...And the Chinese will operate it in a diffrent fashion than other navies might. For one thing I doubt they will have 12-15 hours of flight operations daily. Perhaps 4-8 hours daily...No offense, I am just guessing. And of course the Chinese will not at first have commitments to deploy their CV's.

[Scratch]

Ok, refined blueprints:



New level under the flight deck. Under the island is the CIC, to the aft the flag-conference room, and then the flag compartments. Forward to the CIC are flight ops, briefing rooms and staff compartments.
Reduced hanger hight to 7,3m now. Put the VLS on extensions on the port side lower then flight deck level. Removed port bow elevator.

Somehow I hope it's not becoming too "western style" since the PLAN has Varyag as a guidline and won't get too far away from it with it's first domestic carrier.

[bd popeye]

Excellent Padawan, excellent

Somehow I hope it's not becoming too "western style" since the PLAN has Varyag as a guidline and won't get too far away from it with it's first domestic carrier.

I agree with you. Lets not make it too western. You did a good job. With the size airwing and tempo of flight operations China would send to sea two elevators would be enough. Along with one catapult and the ski jump.

One question..Is there or will there be CIWS on the starboard(right) side of the ship? I really don't see it...

[Scratch]

One question..Is there or will there be CIWS on the starboard(right) side of the ship? I really don't see it...

Well those small four half-circle extensions (don't know how to call them better) at the bow and aft end, to the port and starbord are ment to carry type 730 CIWS augmented by four improved HQ-7 close-in SAMs each. I was just to sluggish to explicitly paint them at first and now forgot them in the refinment.

[bd popeye]

Well those small four half-circle extensions (don't know how to call them better) at the bow and aft end, to the port and starbord are ment to carry type 730 CIWS augmented by four improved HQ-7 close-in SAMs each. I was just to sluggish to explicitly paint them at first and now forgot them in the refinment.

I thougth so. Oh..those half circles extensions are called sponsons..I'll make a sailor out of you yet!

[planeman]

Scratch's ideas are very realistic and logical. I'm more of a "what if" type of guy so here's a wave-piercing trimaran similar with a noval deck arrangement:


Why not have both the landing and take-off strips with ski-jumps? And they would be interchangable.

Another neat feature is that the multihull design allows you to vent the engine gases between the hulls and so reduce superstructure and IR signiture.

The central superstructure also allows for better stealth especially from the forward quadrant. It also allows you to place a deep VLS in the front of the ship.

The Ship would be about 55,000t and carry 40 aircraft (70 max if UCAVs are used) so similar to the latest British designs. It would also have numerous CIWS and HQ-9 SAM (32 or 48) plus 16 YJ-62 missiles (under ski-jumps) and 8 SS-N-29 ASW missiles.

BTW, the rear facing lift at the back of the flight deck is designed to help lower the RCS from the sides as well.

[Pointblank]

What is important in an aircraft carrier is internal volume: there has to be plenty of space inside the ship for a decent sized hangar and also, space for large fuel tanks for long range and aviation fuel, plus lots of room for the inevitably large crewing requirements needed and the supplies needed for long duration operations. In short, a trimaran is not an efficient use of space, as a monohull ship of the same size has more internal volume which allows for all of this.

Also, as people have alluded to earlier, multi-hull ships are furthermore, not suited for an aircraft carrier, because damage to one hull will result in the ship easily becoming mission-killed, as the flight deck will no longer become level, preventing flight ops, and furthermore, it is harder to do corrective actions to make the flight deck level. There is a reason why future aircraft carrier designs from all nations are mono-hulled, this is the primary reason.

[Gollevainen]

Alright, the work at my virtual shipyard is finally finished and Pei Ching [82] (pr. 087) is now being launched.

The design of the ship is basicly improved and enlargened version form the previous pr. 086A. The long depate and arm-wrestling over wheter to build an seccond carrier at all was ultimately a good thing for PLAN as the design team had quite alot time to draft a ship which incorporates all the leassons learned from the operational trialing and service of the previous ship. The biggest and most important factor is the lenghted and beamier flightdeck without increasing the aircraft operations than only marginally to provide a much more safer airoperation enviroment. All elevators were taken to the sides and were deck-edge type. A third lift was added to the rear starnport side of the ship.
Airgroup is focused around J-10 and Jh-7 is only abourd untill the twin-seater multirole J-10K is ready. New AEW plane based on the airframe of Y-7 is added to the airwing. Total ammount of planes in standart configurations is 42, but during conflict time, the number can be increased up to 57 with stationing planes permanetly on deckparking.

Propulsion is conventional steam due cost-saving meassure. The new phassed array radar system, similar to the ones fitted in 052C is fitted, tough these radars lack the missile tracking ability. Weaponry is provided with 32 HHQ-16 SAMs (the VLS is in theory able to field other type of missiles, but there is no fire control radars however) and with 4 Type 730 30 mm CIWS.

The ship's specs are following:

Dispalcment: 70 000 tons full load
Lenght: 304 m
Beam: 38
Withd of the flightdeck: 75 m
Draught: 10.5 m

Hangar: 168 x 32 m

To sum it up, its really "what Kuznetsov size ship could be"....

[bd popeye]

Very nice Golly... But,

Why did you put those VLS cells on the flight deck? That will be a hazzard to operations. They don't take away much deck space because your flight deck is huge. Nearly the size of a Forrestal class. And your CVW is of reasonable size.

I do not understand why your hangar is seemingly short to me. A CV-59 class hangar is about 230-240m in lenght.

All in all a great design!

[Obi Wan Russell]

Excellent design Golly, I'd only make one minor adjustment myself, the Waist Catapult needs to angled slightly to port so the aircraft clear the ship on launch. If an aircraft being catapulted loses power it might strike the side of the ship, or the aircraft might be run down by the carrier after it hits the sea. Not good for pilot morale. VLS in the flight deck is a peculiarly Russian idea which the Chinese may well copy so no objection there, and a relatively small hangar is again something the PLAN may unwittingly copy from Varyag. Of course we could offer our services to them as design consultants for a small fee...

[bd popeye]

Excellent design Golly, I'd only make one minor adjustment myself, the Waist Catapult needs to angled slightly to port so the aircraft clear the ship on launch. If an aircraft being catapulted loses power it might strike the side of the ship, or the aircraft might be run down by the carrier after it hits the sea. Not good for pilot morale. VLS in the flight deck is a peculiarly Russian idea which the Chinese may well copy so no objection there, and a relatively small hangar is again something the PLAN may unwittingly copy from Varyag. Of course we could offer our services to them as design consultants for a small fee...

I'd love to help the PLAN design a CV. I'd start off with an LPH first. Then a CV. What I'd really like to do in my dream world is train the sailors on the PLAN CV in safety, flight deck operations and ordance handling. In all honesty I could do that.

As for the cats'...I think they are ok. Even the waist one. Your suggestion is correct Jedi master.Accidents do happen. But if you check out this link

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...n-68-schem.htm

Notice the placement of the #4 waist cat. It is parallel with the deck. In all the time I worked on the flight deck I only once did see a plane crash on launch. That was an Intruder shot off the STBD bow cat on the Nimitz.

Excellent drawing Golly.

[Obi Wan Russell]

I'd love to help the PLAN design a CV. I'd start off with an LPH first. Then a CV. What I'd really like to do in my dream world is train the sailors on the PLAN CV in safety, flight deck operations and ordance handling. In all honesty I could do that.

As for the cats'...I think they are ok. Even the waist one. Your suggestion is correct Jedi master.Accidents do happen. But if you check out this link

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...n-68-schem.htm

Notice the placement of the #4 waist cat. It is parallel with the deck. In all the time I worked on the flight deck I only once did see a plane crash on launch. That was an Intruder shot off the STBD bow cat on the Nimitz.

Excellent drawing Golly.

I've noticed some people seem to think the concepts of a PLAN CV and a PLAN LPH are an 'either or' situation, when they are in fact complimentary. So, specs for a PLAN LPH? Or rather a class of LPHs to screen the CV fleet (let's not think in terms of one offs).

[Scratch]

To give another perspective of my design I decided to do a hand-made drawing.
Though I'm anything but good at it, you might get an idea.


Planeman, why not put a second elevator between the skyjumps, otherwhise aircraft would have to taxi all the way back to a single elevator if my eyes are working well). and your ship must either be very long or the flight deck is rather short, due to the long part forward of the flight deck.
And I think it's somewhat moot to put that much emphasise in making a CV stealthy.
But as you said, it's a what if and the imagination is nice.

Golly, nice story, close to a CATOBAR Kuznetsov from the looks.