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General ship propulsion

This is a discussion on General ship propulsion within the Navy forums, part of the China Defense & Military category; so this is kind of interesting on 052C propulsion posted by snake65 on CDF. basically, it looks like DA/N-80 (UGT-25000) ...

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    PLAN ship propulsion thread

    so this is kind of interesting on 052C propulsion posted by snake65 on CDF.


    basically, it looks like DA/N-80 (UGT-25000) has a lot more power than I previous thought. It's power of 26.7 kw almost matches that of LM-2500+. I'm not sure about the listed figures for DA/N-80 on sinodefence.

    also from this site
    http://www.zmturbines.com/Eng/AboutE...ferenceEng.htm
    1990-2000
    Power plants of STIG configuration utilize steam injection into gas path increases electric power output by 40% with electric efficiency of 42-45% and reduction of emissions.
    «Aquarius» type units rated at 4,2-40 MW with electric efficiency of 35-42% are advanced version of STIG cycle that runs on close water-loop concept with no water loses.
    The single shaft engines for power generation were designed and manufactured:
    UGT 2500 rated at 2,85 MW and efficiency of 28,5% (1993);
    UGT 110000 rated at 110 MW and efficiency of 36% (1997).
    Four UGT2500 gas turbines were sold to Canada and Czech for power generations.
    Eight UGT25000 marine gas turbines were sold to China together with the license for manufacturing.
    make a note of the last line. I wonder if they will use QC-260 or UGT-25000 for the next generation of DDGs.
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    Last edited by tphuang; 07-04-2007 at 10:08 PM.

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    PLAN ship propulsion thread

    Although this is not discussed a lot, but have popped up enough time to warrant a thread. I found an article recently, apparently comes from modern ship magazine edition 9A.
    http://military.china.com/zh_cn/top0.../14293380.html
    图01 闻雪友,中国工程院院士。1940年出生,1962年7月上海交通大学毕业后分配到中国船舶工业总 公司第七研究院703所工作至今,1984年6月任研究所总工程师,1992年至2000年任研究所所长。 闻院士长期从事舰船/工业燃艺轮机装置的研究设计工作,曾任我国多型舰用燃气轮机机组的研制负责人,后又曾 组织实施多项与燃气轮机相关的大型民用工程,为我国舰用燃气轮机的发展和民用化进程做出了重要贡献。在40 多年的科研生涯中,闻院士获国家及省部级科研成果奖8项。闻院士现任某型国产化船用燃气轮机的 总设计师和"高温气冷反应实验堆"工程中我国首次研制的"闭式氦气透平压气机组"的总设计师。2007年6月,本刊记者对闻院士进行了专访
    this person's credential, apparently he is the chief developer for an indigenous gas turbine project and worked in the Closed Gas Turbine Compressor Unit of the first HTGR project. The second part is interesting, since this implies high temperature gas cooled reactor might have ended up in a naval project (ie: 093 SSN).

    现代舰船2007.09A

      记者:闻院士,您几乎亲历了我国舰用燃气轮机发展的全过程,请您谈谈我国舰用燃气轮机的研制是如何起步 的?
      闻院士:我国舰船燃气轮机研发的起步并不算晚。根据《国防科学技术十年规划》,1958年开始着手研发 计划的具体组织实施,决定成立南、北方两个联合设计组,先开展大、中、小三型机组的可行性论证和方案设计。 1960年初,在对方案设计审查的基础上,确定重点进行6000马力舰用燃气轮机的研制工作。为加强舰船蒸 汽轮机和燃气轮机的设计、研制工作,决定成立专业研究所。
      与此同时,在1959年底,根据中苏双方的协定,苏联将其研制的第一型舰用燃气轮机M-1加速机组的图 纸运抵中国。M-1曾装于苏联183K型鱼雷快艇,功率4000马力,翻修寿命100小时,在苏联已淘汰, 引进该机组进行仿制的目的旨在技术练兵。
      所以开局、布局是不错的,一开始就是自行设计和仿制两条路并进。
      有件事值得提一下,那时我曾在一内部资料中看到一条消息,说是曾将BK-1航空涡轮喷气发动机("米格 "-15的发动机)直接安装在快艇上,在青岛海域做喷气推进的试验,试验时其声音就仿佛喷气机飞过一般。也 许这是中国第一次将燃气轮机与舰船结合的尝试,尽管很特别。
      难以置信的是,在当时对舰船燃气轮机知之甚少,工艺水平也很低的状况下,从M-1图纸到达,经翻译、消 化、工艺准备、试制和装配,仅用11个月上海汽轮机厂就完成了首台样机的制造。
      由于原机结构设计存在缺陷,加之制造、装配质量欠佳,苏方又未提供计算资料,台架试车并不顺利,历经3 年才通过了验收试验。其间排除了大量故障,做了大量改进设计。例如,原机轴承回油温度高,轴承跑道过度磨损 ,攻关组最终采用多喷嘴供油和腰鼓型滚棒轴承使问题得以彻底解决。又如在艇上做全速试验时,突然一声轰响, 烟囱里冲出一股火光,发动机不转了。分析结果认定,压气机导叶与隔板均为铝材,且隔板有中分面,刚度较差, 当高工况时隔板刚度不足导致与转子轮盘相摩擦产生高热所致。为此对原结构做了改进设计,排除了 故障。
      为促进燃气轮机装艇应用,军方将一艘高速炮艇改装为试验艇。该艇采用2台12V180柴油机作巡航机, 1台M-1作加速机。该艇干1966年底开始先后在吴淞、舟山、青岛、旅大等海域进行海上试验,1台新机组 运行106小时,达到原设计性能,经返厂检查,各部件良好,复装后继续使用。1971年,该试验艇正式移交 东海舰队。
      这是我国在水面舰艇上正式采用燃气轮机的第一次尝试,经过试制、陆试、科研性试验、小批生产、装舰设计 、海上实艇试验诸阶段,积累了宝贵的第一手实践经验,对培养舰船燃气轮机设计、制造、运行技术队伍起了入门 作用。
      6000马力的燃气轮机加速机组则是我国自行设计、研制的首型舰船专用机,1964年完成设计。当时参 加设计的大多是20、30岁的年轻人,怀着为建立一支强大海军的目标而勤奋工作,充满青春活力。由于样机仅 加工1台,主要部件既是试验件又是样机正式部件,为保证一次成功,步步谨慎小心。进行了60余项部件试验, 以验证机组的设计思想和部件性能,并根据试验结果对部件做了改进。整机试验阶段曾发生涡轮叶片严重烧伤、主 轴承损坏等事故,最终完成500小时耐久性试车。其后进行小批量生产,同时开展了双机并车传动装置的研制, 包括行星减速器、液力耦合器、自动同步离合器及其自控系统,整套双机并车传动装置在陆上试验站进行了150 小时长期试车。这也是我国第一次进行并车传动装置的研制。在整机及装置试验中进行了详尽的科研性测量和试验 ,获取大量宝贵的数据和资料。遗憾的是,虽然整个动力装置的可靠性已满足要求,具备了装艇使用的条件,但因 研制周期过长,原装猎潜艇的计划调整而未能装舰使用。
      该型发动机的研制成功开创了我国舰船燃气轮机自行设计的先河,打破了"零"的记录,从技术到材料全部立 足于国内,研制中所积累的一整套设计、制造、试验、运行实践经验和技术设施、手段,为我国舰船燃气轮机的进 一步发展和应用奠定了坚实的技术基础。
      正因为在6000马力燃气轮机中完全自行研制的压气机获得成功,在该压气机前加0级、00级,使空气流 量、压比增加,又将燃气初温提高到1000℃,发展出一型12500马力的船用燃气轮机,这是 后话。

      记者:当时世界上舰用燃气轮机的发展情况与水平如何?
      闻院士:1947年英国研制的首型燃气轮机G1装炮艇应用,并取得成功。此后经历了专用设计(G2、R M60、G4、G6)和航机改装("海神"、"奥林普斯")两种途径。英国海军于1967年做出了关键性的 政策决断-今后英国的大、中型水面舰船将全部以燃气轮机为动力。那时英国燃气轮机装舰总功率数已达3030 00马力,累计运行时数达88000小时,这使英国海军在判断舰船燃气轮机方面处于非常权威的位置。可以说 ,英国是舰船燃气轮机的鼻祖。
      苏联舰船燃气轮机的研制工作起步于1954年,一直采用专门设计的舰船燃气轮机。在1970年前已先后 完成第一代的M-1、M-2、M-3及第二代的M-5、M-6、M-7船用燃气轮机装置的研制并大量装舰, 曾是世界海军大国中燃气轮机装舰数量最多者,也是世界上首先采用全燃动力装置、燃气轮机直接倒车、横向交叉 传动等技术的国家。
      美国的起步相对较晚,由于其航空工业发达,经济实力强大,始终走航机舰改之路。在上世纪60年代FT- 12,FT-4,LM1500相继问世,特别是70年代初由成熟的航空涡轮风扇发动机派生的LM2500船 用燃气轮机以其低耗油率建立了新标准,也显示了航改的新方式,由此开始确立了美国在船用燃气轮机领域中的地 位。

      记者:您谈到了航机舰改的途径,我国有否开展这方面的工作?
      闻院士:实际上我国船用燃气轮机的发展在相当一段时期内是采取专用设计和航空改装并举的方针,之所以要 进行专用设计,部分是由于我国的航空发动机水平落后(翻修寿命短,经济性差),无适宜的可供改装的发动机所 致。
      1967年决定将我国当时推力最大的涡轮喷气发动机(WP-8)派生为大功率(22000马力)舰用燃 气轮机。这是我国首次航机舰改的实践,也是我国自行研制的首台大功率舰用燃气轮机。依据舰用化、中国化的要 求,对燃气发生器进行了80多项修改设计,新设计了动力涡轮及各系统,进行了大量的试验研究,包括用我所自 行研制的八通道遥测仪对新研涡轮的叶片-轮盘耦合系统在发动机实际运行条件下进行动频率、动应力及振型测量 ,轮盘动态、稳态温度场测量等在当时国内均为首次进行的一系列试验,1974年完成耐久试验。
      样机研制成功,准备转入装备生产时,有意思的事情发生了。向来受限不能向我国出口舰船燃气轮机的某海军 大国的著名公司主动表示可卖给我国某型船用燃气轮机。当双方谈判进展到后期时,另一个海军强国的著名公司又 主动表示可以向我国出口更先进的船用燃气轮机。"点"踩得很准,于是新一轮的谈判开始并最终达成。及至"六 四"时重又联合制裁、禁运,这是后话。这一经历使我强烈地感受到,像舰船燃气轮机这样的重大装备,一定要走 自己的路!
      1974年确定以航空涡轮螺桨发动机(WJ-6)为母型机,将其派生为小功率船用燃气轮机(3000马 力),拟装扫雷艇。1982年完成3台样机生产及整机试验,与此同时决定装气垫登陆艇试验。为此,需新研机 桨联控系统及减速器,1984年完成了机组联试。2号机于1988年完成500小时耐久性试验。2套燃气轮 机推进系统于1989年初装艇,并于年底完成海上航行试验,交付舰队。
      1981年底开始进行将航空涡轮风扇发动机(WS-9)派生为13000马力舰用燃气轮机的研制工作, 其低压压气机由风扇顶切而成,1989年完成燃气发生器耐久试验及交付试验,1992年完成整机试验。其间 还进行了新研低压压气机的工作,使发动机的功率可提高至15000马力。
      从上面简短介绍中可见,在那时我们已对涡喷、涡桨、涡扇三种不同类型的航空发动机进行了舰用化改装研究 和实践工作,进行了大量的零部件、整机及装置的试验研究,积累了大量宝贵的实际经验。

      记者:降低油耗,提高效率是舰用动力装置永恒的发展主题,请您谈谈燃气轮机发展方向。
      闻院士:由于燃气轮机属高技术产品,其发展必须具备雄厚的工业基础和长期投入,加之世界各国各大公司收 购、兼并、联合,目前世界上真正能设计、制造大功率舰船燃气轮机的厂商为数极少。各国海军装舰使用的燃气轮 机集中在少数几个型号上,这一特点在大功率舰船燃气轮机上尤为突出。进入90年代以来,大档功率(3000 0马力以上)燃机的研发成为各国海军舰船燃气轮机发展的主流,其最大功率约为50000马力(在国际标准条 件下)。同时效率也逐步提高,简单循环效率达到40%,复杂循环效率达到42%。
      分析世界大功率舰船燃气轮机的发展情况,可以发现在70年代以后相当长的时间段内,各国海军装舰使用的 大功率舰船燃气轮机绝大多数均集中在LM2500这一型号上。而进入90年代以后,随着各国海军对于水面舰 艇主动力装置的功率需求不断提高,大功率舰船燃气轮机的研发有了新的发展,陆续有FT8、UGT-2500 0、WR-21、LM2500+、MT-30等在研或已装舰,功率档主要集中在40000马力左右。根据大 功率舰船燃气轮机的发展趋势,可以推断40000~50000马力档次的舰船燃气轮机可以满足未来10-1 5年内各国海军对于大中型水面舰艇大功率燃气轮机主动力的需求。
      燃气轮机性能提高主要有两条途径。一条是简单循环燃气轮机,通过增加压比、提高初温、改进部件效率,从 而实现更高的综合性能。典型的例子是LM2500燃气轮机,从20也己70年代初期开始,经30年的不断完 善、改进、发展和提高,研制出其发展型LM2500+,压比从18.8增至22.2,功率从21兆瓦提高到 30兆瓦,耗油率从233克/千瓦时降至218克/千瓦时。
      另一条途径是循环改进,采用复杂循环来达到更高的综合性能,因为舰船燃气轮机可以采用一些不能在航空发 动机上用,但也许适于船用的技术特点,如间冷、蒸汽冷却等。典型的例子是由西屋公司和罗尔斯.罗伊斯公司合 作研发的WR-21燃气轮机,它是一个带有中间冷却器和回热器的燃气轮机,压比162,功率25兆瓦,效率 42%,且具有优良的部分负荷性能,在1/3负荷时仍具有接近额定负荷时的效率。与简单循环相比不仅输出功 率增加,额定功率下的耗油率降低,而且在大部分功率范围内具有一平坦的耗油率曲线,同时又具有低噪声及低的 排气红外特征。采用该动力装置的舰船年燃油消耗量与美国海军现役的燃气轮机推进动力水面舰船相比降低约30 %,成为新一代舰船燃气轮机的象征。
      两条途径也在交替竞争。1951年,英国为了超越当时简单循环所能达到的水平,采用了3个压气机、多个 间冷器的复杂循环,而采用该技术的M60燃气轮机装于"灰鹅"号炮艇上达到了良好的性能。但是,随着简单循 环燃气轮机性能的发展提高,又摒弃了结构、系统复杂的循环。
      几十年后,美国海军招标研制采用间冷回热循环的WR-21燃气轮机,事物螺旋上升的规律得到体现,但它 也一定会面对新的挑战。

      记者:我国目前舰用燃气轮机的发展状况如何?
      问院士;燃气轮机已成为我国水面舰船主推进动力之一,并正在日益广泛地应用,我们也在进行一些有趣的工 作。

      记者:谢谢您接受我们的采访
    talks about different countries' gas turbine development. Talked about China's need for indigenously developed gas turbine and that gas turbine has become one of the main form of propulsion in surface ships.
    Last edited by tphuang; 08-21-2007 at 10:40 PM.

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    Roger604's Avatar
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    Re: PLAN ship propulsion thread

    So how far along do you think the gas turbine project is?

    In the past, cutting edge projects have not been revealed until they are near completion. This suggests that the first indigenous gas turbine is nearly certified and will be installed in a year or so. Now that it has a solid turbofan in WS-10A, China's engine technology is finally nearing maturity. Perhaps a helicopter engine is next in the pipeline.

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    tphuang's Avatar
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    Re: PLAN ship propulsion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger604 View Post
    So how far along do you think the gas turbine project is?

    In the past, cutting edge projects have not been revealed until they are near completion. This suggests that the first indigenous gas turbine is nearly certified and will be installed in a year or so. Now that it has a solid turbofan in WS-10A, China's engine technology is finally nearing maturity. Perhaps a helicopter engine is next in the pipeline.
    well, there are different gas turbine projects of different size and output. One is based on Kunlun and the other is based on Taihang.

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    Re: PLAN ship propulsion thread

    Problem I have is that the Chinese already had access to a mature turbofan engine in the WS-9, their copy of the Rolls Royce Spey. The UK, and many other nations use a version of this engine (Marine Spey) to power their warships. The Chinese could have first imported a copy of this engine for study and used this as an interim engine.

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    Re: PLAN ship propulsion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pointblank View Post
    Problem I have is that the Chinese already had access to a mature turbofan engine in the WS-9, their copy of the Rolls Royce Spey. The UK, and many other nations use a version of this engine (Marine Spey) to power their warships. The Chinese could have first imported a copy of this engine for study and used this as an interim engine.
    Well, they were going to. That's what this particular tidbits was referring to: "向来受限不能向我国出口舰船燃气轮机的某海军 大国的著名公司主动表示可卖给我国某型船用燃气轮机。"

    But then they were offered LM2500 by US, "当双方谈判进展到后期时,另一个海军强国的著名公司又 主动表示可以向我国出口更先进的船用燃气轮机。"

    They couldn't believe their good luck, so they went with the more advanced engine instead.

  7. #7
    Schumacher is offline Banned Idiot
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    Re: PLAN ship propulsion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xuansu View Post
    Well, they were going to. That's what this particular tidbits was referring to: "向来受限不能向我国出口舰船燃气轮机的某海军 大国的著名公司主动表示可卖给我国某型船用燃气轮机。"

    But then they were offered LM2500 by US, "当双方谈判进展到后期时,另一个海军强国的著名公司又 主动表示可以向我国出口更先进的船用燃气轮机。"

    They couldn't believe their good luck, so they went with the more advanced engine instead.
    This is a tactic used often in both the commercial & military world. When one sees a rival starting to develop a piece of tech & have a reasonable chance of success, you pre-empt it by offering a slightly better tech that you wouldn't have offered in the past.
    While it's only practical to accept such an offer, the key for Chinese leaders is not to kill off the R&D for their domestic projects as a result.
    It's often been said China's big plane project in the early 80s was killed off by among other things, the timely offer of assembly work for I think the MD-95.
    Unlike those days, China seems to have the resources now to continue both domestic & foreign projects. The aim of domestic works are to force foreign suppliers to continue to offer better tech, with of course the ultimate goal of the domestic tech becoming the best choice.

  8. #8
    tphuang's Avatar
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    Re: PLAN ship propulsion thread

    copied from another thread. Just on the possible propulsion on follow ups to 052C and 054A

    And the one on the bottom seems to believes that China will build more 052B/C in the coming days, because China is license building more UGT-25000. Apparently, Zorya also provided M90 propulsion system (UGT-15000) to China. These are probably the most advanced engines they have. A list of their achievements
    http://www.zorya.com.ua/Eng/AboutEnt...ferenceEng.htm
    UGT-15000 and 25000 requirements
    http://www.zorya.com.ua/Eng/Products...T_15000Eng.htm
    http://www.zorya.com.ua/Eng/Products...T_25000Eng.htm
    Also, from strategycenter article a while back http://www.strategycenter.net/resear...pub_detail.asp
    According the French and German sources interviewed at IMDEX, the PLAN is developing a new class of frigate to accompany the Type 054A air defense frigate now in series production. There was apparently a competition between the engines of the French firm SEMT Pielstick and Germany’s MTU, to provide the new diesel engine which will be paired with a gas turbine. MTU won. The new frigate will use two diesels and two turbines, a conventional configuration that could support a range of mission requirements. But the sources interviewed had no insights regarding the size, mission and configuration for this new ship.

    Up To 12 Type 054A Stealthy Anti-Air Frigates Expected

    A French source confirmed reports that as part of its license production agreement, China has recently declared that it produced 24 SEMT Pielstick diesel engines to support the production of six 3,500 ton Type 054A frigates; each ship uses four of the diesels. This same French source was quite sure that there would be a second production batch of 24 to support a second production run for a total of 12 Type 054A frigates.

  9. #9
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    Re: PLAN ship propulsion thread

    doesn't specifically mention these are propulsions for ships, but these are definitely gas turbine that they are finally developing and getting out there.
    http://www.avic1.com.cn/chinese/xwzx...20080104_9.htm
    Talks about R0-110 gas turbine already finishing 99% of parts and getting into finally assembly stage. QD-100 which is designed based on WP-6G has finished testing and is delivering 3 set to kazakhstan. QD-128 has achieving operation for 2000 hours. QD-70A has operated for over 1000 hours. QS-45A has operated to close to 6000 hours. QD-128 is being promoted to the market right now and should get some orders in 2008.

    中国一航加速燃气轮机产业化发展
    http://www.avic1.com.cn  2008/01/04
      本报讯 2007年,中国一航在燃气轮机发展方面成绩喜人。从型号研制、工程服务、市场开拓到投融资项目,积极构建 完整的产业链,形成重、轻、微系列发展的新局面,加速燃气轮机产业化发展步伐。

    在型号研制方面,R0110 重型燃机现已完成零件加工量的99%,全面进入部件装配和总装阶段,适时启动了合成气燃料研究;WP6G中 低热值燃机完成燃气发生器的设计、加工和试验调试;向哈萨克斯坦交付3台QD100燃机机组, QD100燃机在海外天然气发电领域得到了成功推广。此外,QD128发电机组单台机组运行超过2000小 时,QD70A发电机组单台运行超过1000小时,均创历史新高;QS45A-1注水机组单台运行近6000小时,得到了用户好评。

    在预研方面,1兆瓦级燃气轮机研制项目获得“十一五”863计划支持; CPF项目(煤基多联产的煤化工项目)完成了主要系统的国内和国外技术设备的调研配套工作,已完成初步可研 报告。

    为加强工程服务,中国一航组建了燃机维修与售后服务队伍。中国一航的燃机维修与售后服务队伍已经进入“西气 东输”这个国内仅次于三峡工程的巨型基础设施工程,为整个燃机增压管线提供压缩机组的日常巡检,机组的保养 维护,故障判断、分析与处理等服务。在工程咨询与监理服务方面,新近签订中石油中亚管线咨询合同,启动了“ 西气东输”二线的前期咨询工作;开展了北京太阳宫热电冷联供GE9F机组设备建造项目。

    7月份,QD128燃气轮机产品推介会在大庆召开,QD128正式推向市场。甘肃QD128燃机电站项目取 得重大进展,预计2008年可以签约销售。

    在投融资方面,一航燃机重组上市工作通过了证监会审核;中国一航示范性节能减排燃机发电项目——美锦项目奠 基,拉开了一航燃机投资和完全EPC(设计——采购——施工)工程总承包的序幕。 (黄治国)

  10. #10
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    Re: PLAN ship propulsion thread

    TPhuang wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by tphuang View Post
    Although this is not discussed a lot, but have popped up enough time to warrant a thread. I found an article recently, apparently comes from modern ship magazine edition 9A.
    http://military.china.com/zh_cn/top0.../14293380.html

    this person's credential, apparently he is the chief developer for an indigenous gas turbine project and worked in the Closed Gas Turbine Compressor Unit of the first HTGR project. The second part is interesting, since this implies high temperature as cooled reactor might have ended up in a naval project (ie: 093 SSN).


    talks about different countries' gas turbine development. Talked about China's need for indigenously developed gas turbine and that gas turbine has become one of the main form of propulsion in surface ships.
    Dear Sirs:

    While it is indeed possible to use a High Temperature gas-cooled reactor on a land-based powerplant, no one has ever tried to put a gas-cooled reactor in a ship, or any other vehicle for that matter.

    The reason is simple, its just too bulky and heavy.

    If you inquire as to the energy density (MW per cubic meter of core) of a gas-cooled reactor's core, you will see that its just too low to be a compact source of power.

    That is why we use water and liquid metal-cooled reactors in ships, the energy density is so much greater.

    A pressurized-water reactor has a core that is at most tens of cubic meters in volume, a liquid metal-cooled fast reactor is even more impressive with an energy density so high that the core is only one to two cubic meters in volume!

    But a gas cooled reactor has a core that is hundreds to even thousands of cubic meters in volume (for the same power output as water or metal-cooler reactors).

    These reactors use highly-enriched uranium fuel coated or clad in various forms of vitreous pyrocarbon, like silicon carbides. The cladding serves many functions, such as primary containment, a heat-transfer surface, and in combination with graphite blocks, neutron moderation.

    Anyone familiar with graphite-moderated reactors knows that there are fundamental limitations with respect to size, because of the moderating properties of carbon.

    The average number of collisions (logarithmic energy decrement) to produce moderation (resulting in a final neutron energy < 0.0025 eV = 20 deg C) is high due to the relatively high mass of carbon-12.

    These conditions are further exacerbated by this being a high-temperature design, meaning the neutrons' energy spectrum will be shifted into a higher energy (temperature) region, with less favorable fission, scattering and capture cross-sections.

    I am encouraged by China's progress towards the development of gas turbines for power and propulsions but feel this is one path they (nor anyone else) would take.

    Best Regards,

    Dusky Lim

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    crobato is offline Super Moderator
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    Re: PLAN ship propulsion thread

    What you said is all very true.

    But going back to that professor, his title alone is most interesting because of the words Closed Gas Turbine.

    Basically this means a system that does not have a primary coolant circuit that is boiling a second and separate steam circuit, which then is used to turn around a steam turbine. Instead, the heated gases from the HTGR is used to turn a gas turbine directly.

    Even if the power density itself is low, the system eliminates stages to form a single closed circuit, and the transmission of energy from reactor to turbine and generator is much more efficient, with much lower loss than the use of a standard dual circuit with coolant and steam.

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    Re: PLAN ship propulsion thread

    Wouldn't a HGTR also make less noise (at least in theory), since it has less moving parts?

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    Re: PLAN ship propulsion thread

    Well yes, that too. But then again, its not just the number of moving parts, but how fast are they turning. Turbines will move a lot faster than electric motors, which means you need a reduction gear to bring down the revolutions to what is needed for a very slow turning propeller. Modern propellers like the skewed 7 bladed ones you see now, or the pumpjets, turn much more slowly compared to older six or four bladed propellers.

    One of the US subs, the USS Narwhal, experimented without a reduction gear, but it probably didn't have the slow propeller. Nonetheless, this experiment is not repeated anymore.

    Another way to deal with this is go turbine-electric. Instead of reduction gear, turbine turns a generator which turns an electric motor. Generator and motor has less moving parts than a reduction gear. This is what the French had on their Rubis, and it is rumored on the 091/093/094. However, the pics of a reduction gear setup may indicate this may not be true for the Hans, and if there was a Han that would use a turbo-electric drive, it probably was only a single one used for a testbed. But again, I like to see some confirmation on this issue rather than rumor and for all the subs mentioned as well.

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    Re: PLAN ship propulsion thread

    we have another article.

    Basically, this one talks about for 68 days, a ship with low power requirement has been powered with this gas turbine (QC-70). It was 3 years to go from design to finishing testing. I think it could be talking about the LCAC in the future or maybe some other ships. Either way, it looks like China will finally be using its own gas turbines.

  15. #15
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    Re: PLAN ship propulsion thread

    continuing on R0-110 and QD-128, talks about first R0-110 starting final assembly on Feburary 3rd. And also mentions that the micro gas turbine WD-095 finished the design.
    中国首台重型燃气轮机于2月3日开始总装!

    006.jpg (150.72 KB)
    2008-2-15 20:24


    2008年伊始,中国航空工业第一集团公司(以下简称中国一航)即宣告,由中国一航沈阳黎明航空发动机(集 团)有限责任公司(以下简称一航黎明)与沈阳发动机设计研究所等单位联合研制的,中国第一台拥有自主知识产 权的新型中等功率QD128燃气轮机,经过在大庆油田一航黎明北压电站的一年多运转试验,各项指标达到产品 设计要求,正式推向市场。

    与此同时,国家"863"R0110重型燃气轮机于今年2月3日开始总装,一航黎明R0110重型燃气轮机 离商业运作近在咫尺。

    2007年12月21日,由中国一航自行研制生产的中国首架自主知识产权喷气支线客机ARJ21-700飞机顺利实现总装下线。ARJ21-700新支线客机的发动机CF34-10A由美国GE航空公司研制,目前GE公司已经与一航黎明签订了合作生产CF34-10A发动机的框架协议,将来完全由一航黎明为ARJ21-700及后续机型提供动力装置,进而实现民机动力的中国制造目标。

    在一航黎明,技术产品出新接二连三。这个曾是新中国第一台航空涡轮喷气发动机诞生地的企业,研制出了几十个 型号的航空涡轮喷气发动机,创造了许多国内第一。继承着历史的自主精神底蕴,一航黎明在寓军于民、军民结合 的战略思想指引下,在装备制造业的尖端领域,特别是航空发动机和燃气轮机方面,一航黎明打破少数发达国家的 技术垄断,依靠自主创新研制出"昆仑"、"太行"系列发动机和QD128、QD70、QC185等多型燃气 轮机。

    一航黎明董事长、总经理庞为倡导,注重发挥核心技术专长,集中力量在航空及延伸产品的开发生产上下功夫。要 干别人干不了的活,开发生产具有国际竞争力的产品,这就需要自主创新。在新时期,这家国有军工企业重整思想 出路,以企业开放文化思维为精神统率,在核心技术专长领域中,聚合众多国内科研院所,联合攻关。同时,一航 黎明参与世界500强企业的合资合作,学习对方的先进管理经验,消化吸引先进技术。正是孜孜不倦的自主努力 ,在装备制造业命脉领域里,一航黎明走出强者步履,力争打造成世界一流的航空发动机生产科研基地和以透平机 械制造技术为支撑的大型装备研制基地。

    通用核心技术摘取制造业皇冠上的"明珠"

    2007年年末,一航黎明传来成功摘取制造业皇冠上的"明珠"---燃气轮机QD128的消息。

    经过六年多的自主研制及运行,2007年,运行在大庆北压电厂的QD128燃气轮机机组,成功完成1000 小时长期试验试车任务。这是以一航黎明为主进行制造和总成的第一台具有我国全部知识产权的新一 代燃气轮机。

    燃气轮机是一种将化学能转变为机械能的动力装置,是当今世界上最新和最主要的动力机械。人类动力发展历史大 致经历几个阶段:人力---马力---蒸汽机---燃气轮机。如果说,蒸汽机出现是人类工业革命开始的话,那么燃气轮机则是另一场技术革命。
    一航黎明副总工程师崔荣繁介绍说:"燃气轮机体现了一个国家的结构力学、材料学、气体动力学、工程热力学、 转子动力学、流体力学、电子学、控制理论等学科研究水平和深入程度,集中了机械制造行业所有高精尖技术,因 而被称为装备制造业皇冠上的明珠。"燃气轮机广泛应用于发电、船舶动力、机械驱动等领域,成为一个国家科技 水平、军事实力、综合国力的重要标志之一,是关系到国家能源和国防建设的重要产业。

    目前,世界上只有美、英、俄、法、德、日本等几个少数发达国家具备独立研制燃气轮机的能力,其核心技术一直 被这些国家所垄断。

    为了打破少数发达国家的技术封锁,发展我国的装备制造业,打造自主知识品牌。一航黎明联合沈阳发动机设计研 究所等单位,在研制我国新型航空发动机的基础上,开始进行航空发动机改燃气轮机的研制工作。一项自主产品的 研发,"难"可想而知。而对于这项高技术、高投入和高密集劳动的国际性产品的研制,一航黎明经历艰难的困境 更超乎想象。用一航黎明人自己的话说,"我们当时无经验、无资金,技术上又处于新型航机技术尚未成熟",研 制曾长期徘徊不前。但一航黎明始终把发展燃气轮机产品作为企业战略转型的关键,千方百计筹措资金,投入技改 ,先后投入约1亿元资金,用时任总经理林左鸣的话说:"屡战屡败、屡败屡战,不达目的,决不罢 休!"

    由1999年始,一航黎明每年的思路纲要之中都有燃气轮机研制的具体目标,并建立主管副总经理、项目经理、 项目团队三级组织机构和攻关小组。2007年,燃气轮机被定为一航黎明第一号工作项目,力促QD128研制 进程和商业化运作。

    与轻型燃气轮机QD128一道,一航黎明也进入了R0110重型燃气轮机的自主研制加工制造领域,2007 年8月已经完成"863"重型燃气轮机主要课题 "涡轮叶片精密铸造"攻关成果,进入"大型盘鼓件电子束焊接"的攻关中,一航"863"重型燃机课题组负责 人介绍,在完成设计、材料工程应用、标准体系形成之后,"863"重型燃机课题全面进入了加工制造阶段。如 此,一个自主品牌的重型燃气轮机正在向我们走来。

    同时,一航黎明的微型燃气轮机WD-095也完成了研制。至此,一航黎明民用燃气轮机产品就研制开发出三大系列重型、轻型、微型,均拥有国内自 主知识产权。

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