FFG 054/054A Thread

[supertran]

Cowlan posted this in another site so thank him for the picture

[tphuang]

hmm, if you checked in the PLAN picture thread, it's actually in there already.

For the sake of the argument, the above picture is from Huangpu. The ones below are from Hudong.

[supertran]

Yeah after I posted the picture I saw that you had already posted it. No harm done. I see that Huangpu is going quicker then the other one. Keep us updated because I love the way the 054 looks.

[tphuang]

a little more, the following is what some people believe as the 054A model. I guess we will see if 054A turns into this in a few months.

[chicket9]

Helicopters is always a pressing issue for the PLAN.

I'd think that each PLAN ship with a hangar should have its own helicopter and aviation crew...which would be attached to that ship for long term (if not permanent) deployment. Therefore, ship and helo would get to work more often together, and thus familiarity between ship and its own helo would make ASW ops more efficient. At the moment, if PLAN ships have to share round helos etc, it makes efficient operations quite difficult.

You know its not just bout technology and aircraft, to me, it is quite important for the ship's captain and helo pilots on that ship to have an understanding of each other...so in tactical situations, that pilot would know what he is expected of, and that captain can know that pilot will do the job and follow his commands.

This is important for destroyers and frigates anyway...of which the PLAN possesses 14 destroyers and 17 frigates that all possess a hangar...

Auxilaries aren't so important...the Z-8 does a good job in that area.

[MIGleader]

I'm not saying i dont believe you tphuang, but where did you get all this information? Some of it we already knew, but ive knew they were going to put 52c systems on the 54

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by MIGleader

I'm not saying i dont believe you tphuang, but where did you get all this information? Some of it we already knew, but ive knew they were going to put 52c systems on the 54

Those are just my personal speculation and some other people's speculation. Much of those speculation is based on the 054A model (those 3 images above). Of course, if we go by the model, then that signals two tombstone like radar rather than than the 4 AESA panels we see on 052C. That's why I'm asking for some other opinions on this.

[bd popeye]

Originally Posted by chicket9

Helicopters is always a pressing issue for the PLAN.

I'd think that each PLAN ship with a hangar should have its own helicopter and aviation crew...which would be attached to that ship for long term (if not permanent) deployment. Therefore, ship and helo would get to work more often together, and thus familiarity between ship and its own helo would make ASW ops more efficient. At the moment, if PLAN ships have to share round helos etc, it makes efficient operations quite difficult.

You know its not just bout technology and aircraft, to me, it is quite important for the ship's captain and helo pilots on that ship to have an understanding of each other...so in tactical situations, that pilot would know what he is expected of, and that captain can know that pilot will do the job and follow his commands.

This is important for destroyers and frigates anyway...of which the PLAN possesses 14 destroyers and 17 frigates that all possess a hangar...

Auxilaries aren't so important...the Z-8 does a good job in that area.

Excellent post chicket. This is almost 100% what the PLAN needs to do to be profiencent in Helo ops. You can't just keep swapping the helos from ship to ship. Unless thay are fully trained like some navies in the world...

I would disagree with you about the auxilaries having helos. While the ASW mission is of vital importantance to the PLAN so should the SAR mission. Also if the PLAN is going to expand into the "blue" water of the Pacific it will eventually have to perfect VERTREP missions.(Vertical Replenishment)

VERTREP is important when re-arming and re-supplying..Here is a pic taken in the 80's of a USN CH-46 lifting an jet-engine container to the USS Midway CV-41.

[guitarjeff]

All this talk about the 054 having ASW as its primary mission gets me curious about its sonar. I don't see a hull-mounted sonar on the picture taken from the Huangpu yard, and I don't recall reading the 054 frigate (or the 052B/C ships, for that matter) having a towed sonar based on the information available. Could someone please comment?

[eecsmaster]

Orekhe directors on the model? Can you say Shtle?

as for the sonar suit, probably towed. I remember seeing a picture of a yellow towed unit back in the days.

[MIGleader]

Now, i still dont think the 54 would have a PAR or C4I system taken from the 52c. As we all know, the 52c had an aegis-like system, which performs great for larger destroyers. Such a system has not been proven for smaller frigates, and could result in sub-par performance.

[eecsmaster]

cough Spanish F-100 cough

[adeptitus]

Originally Posted by eecsmaster

cough Spanish F-100 cough

The F-100 Alvaro de Bazan Class is 5,800 tons, versus the Type 054 is ~3,000 tons.

The smallest Spanish ship equipped with AN/SPY-1 radar system will prolly be the new AFCON Corvette:

AFCON Corvette
Displacement: 2,600 tons
Length: 102 meters
Beam: 13.9 meters
Draft: 3.75 meters
Crew: 60 + 20
Propulsion: CODAD w/4 diesels, 2 shafts
Speed: 27+ kts
Radar: SPY-1K phased array radar (AN/SPY-6?)
Sonar: hull-mounted sonar system
Weapons: 76mm gun, Mk 41 VLS system, Surface missile launcher (for SSMs), Aegis combat system
Aviation: 1 helicopter

http://www.afconships.com/corvette.html

Kinda funny to think they'd classify a 2,600 ton ship as a Corvette, in same category as the 650 ton Visby-class. LoL.

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by adeptitus

The F-100 Alvaro de Bazan Class is 5,800 tons, versus the Type 054 is ~3,000 tons.

The smallest Spanish ship equipped with AN/SPY-1 radar system will prolly be the new AFCON Corvette:

AFCON Corvette
Displacement: 2,600 tons
Length: 102 meters
Beam: 13.9 meters
Draft: 3.75 meters
Crew: 60 + 20
Propulsion: CODAD w/4 diesels, 2 shafts
Speed: 27+ kts
Radar: SPY-1K phased array radar (AN/SPY-6?)
Sonar: hull-mounted sonar system
Weapons: 76mm gun, Mk 41 VLS system, Surface missile launcher (for SSMs), Aegis combat system
Aviation: 1 helicopter

http://www.afconships.com/corvette.html

Kinda funny to think they'd classify a 2,600 ton ship as a Corvette, in same category as the 650 ton Visby-class. LoL.

054 is believe to be around 3400 tonne and 054A is larger than that. As mentionned, it's probably in the 4000 to 5000 tonne range. So, it's still smaller than F-100 and F-124 (not surprisingly, some posters on Chinese forums want to compare 054A to these two), but not significantly smaller.

[tphuang]

well, huitong has now put up a new section for 054A.
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/huitong/Jiangkai_Jiangwei.htm

There have been indications that the first batch of two improved Jiankai class FFGs (Type 054A?) are currently under construction in both Shanghai and Guangzhou since late 2005. The major improvement of this design is an American MK48 style 32-cell VLS at B position (HHQ-16/SA-N-12? with Front Dome type guidance radar) which may utilize hot launch. Its air defence is further strengthed by two Type 730 CIWS installed on both sides of the aft mast. A Top Plate air-search radar is installed on top of the foremast.
- Last Updated 7/11/06

maybe we should also put up a section on this on sinodefence?