FFG 054/054A Thread

[Kilo636]

Originally Posted by Gollevainen

In my following paragrahp I said:


.

Now which part of that made you say U assume base on released data and u come to the conclusion Type 730 isn't good? ???? Did you just read the first line?

Is this what u say below? The system is not good but better than the suck Goalkeeper! Since type 730 is no good but is better than a system who is compare to a no good system. So goal keeper must be sucked.. Which is the conclusion i come to..

Anyway I'm saying the system isen't good, It may well be even better than Goalkeeper

Originally Posted by Gollevainen

5.8 mm rifle rounds have nothing to do with the CIWS systems (as itself is only loosely related to the actual subject, 054A frigate). So people, quit throwing lame excuses everytime your pride is offended...you know that not all made in China in the past couple years is heavenly superior to everything else made in the face of the earht...But neither it's automaticly inferior to western systems. Thats why I urge you to look every case as it own and not make false assumptions. And have some freaking objectivity!!!!

As u already mention,actual data cannot be obtain of the Type 730.
Therefore i used the case of 5.8mm rds as the PLA did not release the very actual performance of it. A independant study and report of the 5.8mm rds was conducted by some user who actually use it and test it and there come to the conclusion that what is circulating around the net abt the superiority of 5.8mm rds was proven. Of cos ,obtaining 5.8mm rds were more easier than trying to get the actual type 730 CIWS and tested it. Since i don think any outsider can easily access the Chinese CIWS like the 5.8mm rds. It is impossible to prove its stated performance of the article r bullshit. People has a conception all Chinese article is bullshitting and PRC military is always in the 70's and 80s which is getting proven wrong again and again. I will say there is still many fake article as but lesser as every yrs goes by as PRC gets stronger!

So this article may prove to be correct for what it states!

I remember u mocking abt tphuang as he talked abt the CIWS type 730 installed on 054A frigate with a green canvas covered on it. Tphuang can almost comfirm it but u laugh at him challenging him how can he comfirmed it by just looking at the green rd canvas covered on it! We all have seen a mock up of 054A,plus tphuang also provided the photo of the mock-up and why can't it be proven?
In the end,the thing with the green canvas was proven to be a Type 730 CIWS!

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/show...&postcount=142

It must have hurt those Chinese hater who we once again prove them wrong that we got the correct spec...

[duskylim]

Dear Sirs:

With regards to close-in-weapons-systems (CIWS), I seem to remember a truck-mounted version of the Type 730 CIWS, (called LD?-2000?). In later photographs of the system, I seem to recall that they trial-mounted some missiles to it.

I don't remember if those missiles were QW-1 or QW-2s or TY-90s? Anyway there were also a series of pictures with some very old PLAN frigates carrying missiles (PL-10/11?) on their old 37 mm AAA mounts.

What I wish to point out is that for the PLAN, the gun-missile combination is not a new idea, one that I hope to see in the future.

Best Regards,

Dusky Lim

[Gollevainen]

Kilo, my lad, remember there's two paths you can go by but in a long run, there is still time to change the road you're on....get the point?

Is this what u say below? The system is not good but better than the suck Goalkeeper! Since type 730 is no good but is better than a system who is compare to a no good system. So goal keeper must be sucked.. Which is the conclusion i come to.

So when I say it's way to premature to say some system is better than other, but also reminding that I'm not saying the orginal system is bad either, you understand it in the way above mentioned? What it tells about your reading comphereehnsion?

I remember u mocking abt tphuang as he talked abt the CIWS type 730 installed on 054A frigate with a green canvas covered on it. Tphuang can almost comfirm it but u laugh at him challenging him how can he comfirmed it by just looking at the green rd canvas covered on it! We all have seen a mock up of 054A,plus tphuang also provided the photo of the mock-up and why can't it be proven?
In the end,the thing with the green canvas was proven to be a Type 730 CIWS!

Mocking? My fellow mod? I'm not mocking anyone, not even you at the moment. All I did is questioning his (and many others) saying just for the sake of it...to get you guys realize that you need to have far more objective minds...but thats just what I do...teach you guys to arguing your cases better. For example, someone posted in this very thread a model of 054A with "seccond" VLS in the rear part of the ships superstructure and all you kids went crazy about some ASW missile being fitted there...none of you bothered to find out that the pic was Photoshop job...So who else beside me is helping out the goal of this forum to be a place for objective information? You?

It must have hurt those Chinese hater who we once again prove them wrong that we got the correct spec...

Now you are calling me a china-hater? Belive me, I tend to ban those china-haters, usually so fast that unregulars like yourself haven't got a clue what went on...

And now this oftopic BS is going to end, If you have something else to say to me which isen't linked to the thread, PM me but in this thread we shall now concerate solely for 054A or else there would be trouple...

[planeman]

This compariative image clearly shows that the 054a (top) has a wider helideck, achieved by raising the dividing line between the upper and lower slopes.


The helideck control room windows are also different, and smaller.

The placement of the '730 CIWS has required the repositioning of the flare/chaff launchers further aft.

[crobato]

Originally Posted by duskylim

Dear Sirs:

With regards to close-in-weapons-systems (CIWS), I seem to remember a truck-mounted version of the Type 730 CIWS, (called LD?-2000?). In later photographs of the system, I seem to recall that they trial-mounted some missiles to it.

I don't remember if those missiles were QW-1 or QW-2s or TY-90s? Anyway there were also a series of pictures with some very old PLAN frigates carrying missiles (PL-10/11?) on their old 37 mm AAA mounts.

What I wish to point out is that for the PLAN, the gun-missile combination is not a new idea, one that I hope to see in the future.

Best Regards,

Dusky Lim

Might be new versions of the QW series, a naval one. Could be QW-3 or QW-4. I know that one of these uses EO guidance system using an IRST, like the same one you see on the 730. Looks like a ball. The other is SAL or semi active laser guided.

[adeptitus]

I found this article on 054A:
http://lenta.ru/news/2006/10/11/china1/

Babelfish translation:
=================================

China equips its ships with the Russian radars

China went down to the water the third frigate of project 054, ITAR- TASS reports.

New frigate is built according to the modernized project, designated as 0shchYaa. From its predecessors it is differed in terms of the use of Russian radio-electronic equipment.

Aboard the ship is established radar "Mineral- me", intended for the delivery aim designations to the antiship missiles and THE SEARCH RADAR "frigate -MИM", intended for the general tracking of the above-water and air situation. Furthermore, frigate has two RLS MR -90 "nut", intended for guiding the AA guided missiles of complex "calm -1".

In the creation of ship the specialists of northern drawing and designing bureau from Saint Petersburg participated. the "russification" of frigate was caused by the malfunctioning of Chinese RLS on the previous ships, it speaks herself in the communication.

The displacement of the ships of project 054 is 3500 tons in the standard version and 3900 tons with the complete load. The length of ship - 132 meters, width - 14 it is meter, sediment - 5 it is meter. The power of power plant composes 30 thousand horsepower, the speed of complete running - 27 it is main.

Frigate bears eight antiship missiles and 32 AA guided missiles in the launching towers. 100- millimeter gun and mounting composes the artillery armament of ship and four 30- millimeter antiaircraft sites with the revolving block it is trunk. For dealing with the submarines the frigate is equipped with six torpedo tubes and reactive bomb throwers. Furthermore, aboard the ship is a hangar for the carrier-based helicopter.

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by adeptitus

I found this article on 054A:
http://lenta.ru/news/2006/10/11/china1/

Babelfish translation:
=================================

China equips its ships with the Russian radars

China went down to the water the third frigate of project 054, ITAR- TASS reports.

New frigate is built according to the modernized project, designated as 0shchYaa. From its predecessors it is differed in terms of the use of Russian radio-electronic equipment.

Aboard the ship is established radar "Mineral- me", intended for the delivery aim designations to the antiship missiles and THE SEARCH RADAR "frigate -MИM", intended for the general tracking of the above-water and air situation. Furthermore, frigate has two RLS MR -90 "nut", intended for guiding the AA guided missiles of complex "calm -1".

In the creation of ship the specialists of northern drawing and designing bureau from Saint Petersburg participated. the "russification" of frigate was caused by the malfunctioning of Chinese RLS on the previous ships, it speaks herself in the communication.

The displacement of the ships of project 054 is 3500 tons in the standard version and 3900 tons with the complete load. The length of ship - 132 meters, width - 14 it is meter, sediment - 5 it is meter. The power of power plant composes 30 thousand horsepower, the speed of complete running - 27 it is main.

Frigate bears eight antiship missiles and 32 AA guided missiles in the launching towers. 100- millimeter gun and mounting composes the artillery armament of ship and four 30- millimeter antiaircraft sites with the revolving block it is trunk. For dealing with the submarines the frigate is equipped with six torpedo tubes and reactive bomb throwers. Furthermore, aboard the ship is a hangar for the carrier-based helicopter.

in case someone missed it, my reply to kilo and golly's argument is in the previous page.

Anyhow, as for this article, it just reads like someone copied a kanwa article.

[ying1978]

Clearest picture of 054a so far:

[Jeff Head]

Originally Posted by ying1978

Clearest picture of 054a so far:

http://img23.imagevenue.com/loc531/t..._122_531lo.jpg

That is a GREAT pic...and I have to tell you, a very fine looking frigate. Very nice lines and she looks like she is going to be very capable. I want a much better look at those VLS cells.

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by Jeff Head

Swimmer, if the Chinese produce an LPD that looks like that, with the VLS and CIWS, I will have to give them very much credit for comming a long, long ways in a very short time. Though it will not have the capacity of a US LPD like the San Antonio, for their purposes, it looks to be a very capable amphibious assault ship design.

That is a GREAT pic...and I have to tell you, a very fine looking frigate. Very nice lines and she looks like she is going to be very capable. I want a much better look at those VLS cells.

yeah, that pictures seems to indicate the LPD will be using 2 type 730 CIWS and HQ-7 SAM with 100 mm gun, that definitely seems to be quite capable self-defense. The interesting part will be to see what kind of helicopters it will equip. I think Ka-29s are a good candidate.

Yeah, if we get a chance with the VLS cells, we will be able to tell if it is shtil type of VLS launchers or not.

Anyhow, I'm moving this to the 054A thread.

[planeman]

Jane's article on it, public extract:

China launches Russianised Jiangkai-class frigate

By Yihong Chang JDW Correspondent
Hong Kong

Huangpu shipyard launched the Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy's (PLAN's) third Type 054 Jiangkai-class frigate on 30 September, a modified 'Russianised' version of the class known as the Type 054A.

The Guangzhou-based shipyard has started outfitting the ship with the Russian Mineral-ME (NATO: 'Band Stand') radar system, a Fregat M2EM ('Top Plate') search radar and two MR90 Orekh ('Front Dome') targeting radars. As a result, the new frigate has much stronger Russian characteristics than its earlier sister ships.

Both Mineral-ME1 active and Mineral-ME2 passive radars have been fitted to the ship to provide target designation for the YJ-83 'Saccade' anti-ship missile. Mineral-ME1 works in I-band and is capable of simultaneously tracking 30 targets out to 250 km, while ME2 can track 50 targets working across I, G, E, F, and D-bands up to 450 km. With the targeting function engaged, the system can work up firing solutions for 10 different targets.

[crobato]

YC should learn how to count or at least wait for more pictures before publishing stuff he doesn't know. There are 4 Orekhs not 2.

[tphuang]

I honestly didn't think highly of these pictures until the threads posting these got removed.

[crobato]

The first pic might be more important. Could be the structural frames for the VLS, set on the side. Looks like 2x8 cells here, and four of them. 32 cells in all.

[snake65]

Originally Posted by crobato

The first pic might be more important. Could be the structural frames for the VLS, set on the side. Looks like 2x8 cells here, and four of them. 32 cells in all.

You mean 2x4 cells? According to the author of photos, that's exactly what they are - HQ-16 VLS frames. It seems that the guy is working at the shpyard and might get in real trouble.