SinoDefence Forum

planeman

More google earth satalite images, this time from Qingdao Naval Base
where I was looking for SH5 flying boats (36º 2' 47.38" N 120º 17' 04.62" E)

Here's an image of three SH5 flying boats parked nearby, viewed from the same altitude (779ft). These have a wingspan of 36m and a length of 39m:

walter

wow planeman, good work. that does appear to be some sort of WIG design and it makes perfect sense for China to be pursuing such a design with Taiwan just a short distance from the mainland. It is even more interesting since to my knowledge there isn't any information on such a project--at least sinodefence doesn't have anything on it.

planeman

Thanks. The tail and wing shape look very much like Russian WIG designs but I cannot see how it is powered. It may be incomplete.

Here's some size analysis:
Click for larger view

planeman

In homage to the classic cold war tale of the “Caspian sea monster” (what US intelligence experts named the soviet WIG craft when they first saw them), I think we should call this the Yellow Sea Monster.

Ok, I’ve been researching this a bit.

1. The argument for why this must be a WIG not a normal aircraft
a) It is seen on the waterfront with no apparent access to a conventional runway. This is an illogical location for any non-waterborne craft to be built or kept.
b) The wings are too short for an efficient conventional aircraft, flying boat or otherwise.
c) The high-mounted tail and reverse-delta wing are typical of WIG. Note too how wide the tail is in relation to the wings, this is again typical of WIG.

2. Next stop was to find if China has a documented WIG program which conclusively accounts for this. There is a state funded WIG program run through the China Academy of Science and Technological Development (CASTD) which has built the TY-1 (aka DXF-100) model which first flew in 1998 and is in commercial operation as a tourist ferry on an inland lake (which one???). It has limited suitability to open water operation.

Although it has the large high-mounted tailplane typical of WIG, its wings are not reverse diamond.

Another Chinese WIG program comes out of China Ship Scientific Research Centre (CSSRC) who have flown a range of small WIG craft. Their first, “902” first flew in 1984 followed by the XTW-1 in 1988. This series of WIG does not seem to have a reverse-delta wing. The largest is XTW-4 and this is a Possible for our mystery craft but seems to have a wider fuselage and much shorter nose. Has anyone got any technical details for the XTW-4?



3. I took a look at the famous Russian “Caspian Sea Monsters”, the large Ekranoplan (WIG) which can still be seen at Kaspiysk on the Caspian Sea. The sole “Lun” class missile WIG is clearly seen on its ramp and a smaller A-90 transport WIG and some hovercraft sit nearby. These craft are much bigger than our mystery craft.

(Note that they are shown at approximately the same scale as the previously posted mystery craft scale comparison)

Continued....

planeman

...continued.

4. Now for some examples of the reverse delta wing with high mounted tail being used in WIG:



…there are many more.

5. Conclusion
Although the XTW-4 design cannot be conclusively ruled out at this stage, I think this is a new WIG craft designed for open sea use. Its narrow fuselage does not lend itself to transport use implying a military application. It is probably a development craft.

Kampfwagen

Heh. Leave it to google earth to turn a bunch of normal, every day guys into hunters of Secret Weapons. Nice find. I wish I could find something this intresting.

planeman

Google-earth should be repackaged as a comupter game for sad men who grew up in the cold war and remember the days of DoD reports of ekranoplans with rose tinted glasses. Like me. lol.

You can still help solve the mystery. One thing we need to do is establish whether or not the XTW-4 can be discounted.

OK, I'm hunting for data of the XTW-4 so that we can work out how big it is etc:
http://www.techinfo.gov.cn/meeting/b...glish/cb/1.asp


Translated from Russian:
From http://www.chinadata.ru/ecranoplan.htm

planeman

Join the hunt!

Ok, I could do with some help on this.

Any info, particularly dimensions data, on China Ship Scientific Research Center (CSSRC)'s XTW-4 WIG.

Also, we know that CSSRC is based in Wuxi (address: P. O. Box 116, Wuxi, Jiangsu 214082, China). Their emaill address is cssrc@publicl.wx.js.cn cssrc@publicl.wx.js.cn - is there any reason why someone can't just email them asking for info on their WIG? Their website is http://www.cssrc.com.cn/ but I'm having difficulty navigating it.

We need to search that area for WIG. The lat-long for goofgle earth are 31 34'29 N, 120 18'00 E. It's worth noting that Wuxi is near to the sea so there is no obvious logic as to why their WIG would be at Qingdao.

A map of Wuxi from the http://www.wuxi.gov.cn/ site shows naval bases on the Yanktse River (where we know the XTW-4 has been tested) so these are obvious places to start looking:

planeman

Not looking so good now; it turns out that the wingspan of the XTW-4 is about the same as the mystery craft:

Specs for CSSCR XTW-4
Built: 1999, China
Application: Civil
Wing span: 14.5m
Gross weight: 6000kg
Cruising speed: 100kt

Also, the shadow hints at a “Pi” tail as per the XTW-4.

grahamsh

Just posting another carrier (well, “carrier”) location in the Varyag thread and noticed this one….which reminded me that I had seen what looked like an old and defunct small WIG-like thing on Dianshan lake (inland west of Shanghai) in 2004.

And here it is (I think). Not very clear on my PC but someone might get better resolution.

31 05’50” N 120 59’ 09” E

Somewhere I might have a lake level photo of it (although I fear the photo is on a now defunct laptop). It might be the TY-1 thing being used as a tourist ferry that you mention earlier. It looked in 2004, as I recall, distinctly “out of service” and going nowhere.

planeman

Thanks, that’s a great find! Really helpful for putting together the puzzle too.

It’s definitely a WIG. In the image below which is taken due north, the nose of the craft is facing south with the high-mounted tail clearly visible as are the wing mounted floats. At the nose of the craft twin ducted fans can be seen. If it wasn’t for the apparent winglets I’d say it was a China Academy of Science and Technological Development (CASTD) TY-1 WIG. This configuration certainly is typical of CASTD.


From the CASTD site (translated by google):
An image of their (main?) facility:


Right, let’s get looking….

planeman

Ok, I've found a WIG hanger like the one above at Xiaomeikou, 30 57 59N 120 06 02E. Sadly no WIG in view. Two very small WIG can be seen moored each side of the entrance. They appear to be the same as the blue-white one in the picture above.

FreeAsia2000

Yeah.

Well done Planeman we're proud to have you as a member !

Can somebody figure out what the object is at 31 31'42.77" N, 120 12'28.87" E

planeman

I think it's just a speed boat. The bow waves are further back because it's travelling fast enough for the bow to come out of the water.

Undead Yogurt

.....